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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 08:10 pm
nimh

I think it is significant. I'm sure (mama and tartarin could verify) that no poll since 9-11 has turned this corner. And the specific question asked and answered here seems to me to be particularly important.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 08:17 pm
I concur with Blatham, it also seems now that our casualty numbers have reached the point that as many US lives have been lost since the Bush speech that he supposedly ended the war as prior to his speech, people are tired to the same old crap.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 08:19 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Nimh -- By way of explanation -- there have been long threads dedicated to Wellstone closer to the event, so it's been discussed and discussed and the mention of "Wellstone," for many of us, has passed into the history of great unknowns about this administration. To raise it again now as a topic for discussion seemed, in all seriousness, heavy and unnecessary, and Sofia pleas to do so seemed more like needling than like a request for a review. You will find this kind of off-hand reference quite a lot, but it's meant as reference, as indication of position, not as either a provocation or an opening.


OK - understood.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 08:29 pm
Dys, You are likely right with the "same old crap" theory. Which troubles me. We've all expressed our disapproval about the "short attention span." It doesn't trouble me any less even when it works to my political advantage. To see someone I regard as a criminal finally voted out of office simply because people are bored with him/his policies would not be gratifying.
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 09:58 pm
Well - first, to sophia, and to keep it clear. We have been going against each other, and cheering each other on for quite a while, and on many issues. I suspect we will continue to do so. From my side, it's fun. I respect her opinions (don't agree), get testy (but then, I'm older), and for me it's really good to know that sofia is fighting and thinking there on the other side. A welcome change from some others. Sofia - you sure you're not changing a wee bit? And do understand - the Wellstone topic is a delicate and sore one for us.

Blatham. I think the answer to your question is yes. And the Newsweek poll has been one of those most quoted by repubs, because they've liked their figures. A few months back, Andrew Kohut, of the Pew Research group, said that if Bush got down to 50%, he was in trouble. And when you break down this poll, it's not just Iraq. The public is very concerned about the economy, the healthcare, and yes, the environment. These are all issues on which Bush has been noticeably weak. The Rove committee direction has obviously been to glamorize and romanticize Bush's appearance as CinC, and for that they needed a successful war. And also, it looks like the respect and sentiments of some other parts of the world are beginning to be more important to Americans than they first said. Other polls should be making appearances soon.

But certain things are in the air, and are there to look at. The situation in Texas has taken on an air of desperation, and the repubs don't look good. The CA play seems to have a mind of its own. I heard tonight that certain other leading repubs refuse to step down, and Bustamante is gaining strength. Ashcroft is going around making ill-received speeches for his Patriot Acts, while Justice Kennedy seems to be making speeches in which he disagrees with Ashcroft positions.

And this is a time where Bush could appear stronger and more in control if he went to Washington, and met and talked with leaders and a lot of other people. His staying in Crawford and only emerging for fund-raisers gives a distinctly paler cast to his role.

Dean? Maybe he's the one on message, and the others are off. How else do they explain the pull? One of the big strengths has been the meet-ups, which are face-toface meets with him, a chance to listen, and to ask questions, which he answers. If all these people - and they're a diverse bunch - come, and stay, and get more people to come - it's obvious they see something there they like and want. The way I studied it, that's electable.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:04 pm
I"m glad, because I picked Howard Dean when he wasn't so popular. He seems to be picking up momentum, and those are all good signs. I only hope he can keep it up. c.i.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:47 pm
mamajuana--

Hi! Very Happy

The pointed response--> I have seen lots of allusions to dark suspicions on the board about Wellstone's end. I do think it is fair game to ask someone straight out about all such inferences--and will always do it when I'm curious. I also felt it was unfair (for want of a better word) to act as though I was somehow breaking some rule by asking. In this, I was grateful for nimh sharing his views, as they did mirror mine.

By the same token, you and Tartar had the same right to say what you thought about it--whether I agreed with what you said or not. Its all about opinions.

Bottom line: I am glad you're having fun duelling and cheering! I feel the same way. I continue to admire you for the way you speak your mind. I hope you wouldn't prefer less from me.

You've got sort of a Wellstone thing going on. I didn't agree with the majority of his opinions, but he wasn't your average partisan. I had a favorable view of his personality, the content of his character, and the sincerity of where he came upon his views.

Very Happy Cool
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 06:50 am
Now a player, Dean raises campaign goals
By Jill Lawrence, USA TODAY

MILWAUKEE ?- Democrat Howard Dean is boosting his fundraising goals to new heights and is about to escalate his advertising on television in moves that underscore how his campaign is shaping the Democratic primary season: Dean has come from nowhere to lead his rivals on several fronts, and he has the money to maintain an intense pace.
The former governor of Vermont raised $7.6 million in the second quarter of the year, outdoing his eight rivals for the Democratic nomination for president. For the three months ending Sept. 30, Dean is setting his sights on $10.3 million ?- the amount Bill Clinton raised in the same period of 1995, when he was president. That was the best performance by any Democratic presidential candidate in a single quarter the year before an election.
For months, Dean's activities attracted little notice from rivals who assumed that he would be no competition. He was, after all, a prickly maverick with little money from a tiny state with a liberal reputation. And he opposed the war in Iraq at a time when the Bush administration had few critics on the issue.
Now, other Democrats are rushing to try to match him on everything from his angry style to his Internet strategy. Dean has raised millions of dollars and enlisted tens of thousands of supporters online, ensuring that the Web will be a staple of future campaigns.
With state and national polls showing Dean on the rise, the self-styled "people-powered" outsider is spending like a front-runner. This week, he inaugurated his "Grassroots Express," a charter plane decorated with tufts of grass taped between the seats, on a four-day, coast-to-coast tour complete with minute-by-minute schedules and a traveling press entourage.
His campaign, meanwhile, has been on a hiring binge. He has paid staff in 13 states, more states than any other Democratic campaign. And Dean is expanding his TV campaign to more states that have early primaries or caucuses.
"We need to do this to win," Dean says in an interview aboard his plane Saturday night. "The only way to beat George Bush is to run a really tough, hard-hitting campaign and let the American people know what we're doing. And that's why we started as early as we did."
All this before Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and North Carolina Sen. John Edwards have even officially announced their candidacies. Polls show Dean ahead of Kerry in New Hampshire, which holds the first state primary Jan. 27 and which both men desperately need to win. He is edging out Missouri Rep. Richard Gephardt in Iowa, where the Jan. 19 caucuses are considered a must-win for Gephardt. Dean also is moving up in national polls, a sign that more people know who he is.
Dean's pitch is becoming less strident as his status changes. "If I am more dignified and presidential, it's because I have been doing this for a lot longer," he says. "I have more confidence."
To moderate Democrats, the apparent staying power of a candidate who opposed the war in Iraq raises the alarming prospect of a general election debacle in the mold of Walter Mondale in 1984 or George McGovern in 1972.
"A majority of Democrats understand the need to be strong on defense," says Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, the most conservative Democrat in the field and a strong supporter of the Iraq war. The acerbic British magazine The Economist, referring to Dean's admonition that Democrats lose when they try to act like Bush, says "the only thing more dangerous for the Democrats than Bush Lite is McGovern Extra Strength."
Republicans, meanwhile, aren't bothering to hide their excitement at Dean's impact on the race. In a memo this summer to political observers titled "Happy Days," Republican pollster Bill McInturff said Dean either will win the Democratic nomination or force "a sustained battle" for it while he "continues to drag the perception of the Democratic Party far to the left in regard to the use of force."
Either way, McInturff said, "it's all good" for Republicans.

The 'anti-war' guy
Dean, a medical doctor, advocated balanced budgets, tax cuts, gun-owner rights and capital punishment during his 11 years as governor. He also supported causes such as abortion rights, expanded health services and civil unions for gay men and lesbians. And he never fails to remind audiences that he is a stickler for fiscal discipline ?- a prerequisite, he says, for anyone planning to raise spending on health and education.
But he acknowledges that his image among Democrats is chiefly as "the anti-war candidate," and he receives some of his loudest cheers when he reminds crowds of his stance on the war in Iraq.
"Dean has pretty much carved out the position that he's the candidate of the left," says Andrew Smith, director of the University of New Hampshire Survey Center in Durham. "As moderate voters come into the process, they may say Kerry looks like more of a moderate. It's going to be up to Dean to prove that he ... can beat George Bush."
The transition has begun. Dean has stopped comparing Bush to the Taliban and calling his behavior "despicable." Also gone are offhand remarks in which Dean has suggested that the United States "won't always have the strongest military," and that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's ouster may or may not have been a good thing.
Now Dean confers regularly with former Marine commandant Joseph Hoar and former NATO commander Wesley Clark, the latter a possible presidential candidate himself. Dean routinely tells audiences that he supported the Persian Gulf War and the war in Afghanistan. And in the past few days, Dean has started attacking Bush's national security record.
"I finally realized that this president is actually weaker on defense than I am," Dean says. "It was kind of a startling revelation."
Republicans take issue with that characterization. Dean's "platform has two planks: protest and pessimism," says Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. "President Bush has taken action and implemented policies to make Americans safer."
'People-powered Howard'
Among Democratic candidates, Dean's list of firsts and mosts is long. He was the first candidate to set up a presidential fundraising committee (May 2002), the first to put up a TV ad (mid-June in Iowa) and the first to qualify for federal matching money (early July). This month, he was the first candidate to rate cover stories the same week in Time and Newsweek magazines.
Dean was the first Democratic candidate to recognize and to tap into many Democrats' anti-war sentiment, their anger at Bush, their bitter memories of the Florida recount in the 2000 presidential election, and their desire to do more than just vote the next time around. That desire dovetailed with another Dean first: the extent to which he used the Internet to motivate supporters, connect them with each other and pick their brains for ideas.
"I consider myself a Howard-powered person," says Jay Bullock, 28, coordinator of Milwaukee For Dean, playing off Dean's "people-powered Howard" slogan. Other candidates ask for people's votes, the high school English teacher says, but only Dean has sought their leadership skills and feedback. The result is a surge of involvement by newcomers, and a pledge from Dean to bring 3 million new voters into the process.
Rival candidates are playing catch-up ?- on tactics and tone. "Most of you know that other campaigns have gotten a head start on some uses of the Web as a tool of modern campaigning. We are very serious about working to get ourselves up to speed," Kerry campaign manager Jim Jordan wrote last week on Kerry's Web site.
Gephardt's campaign has taken a much sharper edge toward Bush since July. "We won the war in Iraq, but we're in serious danger of losing the peace," he said then during a speech in San Francisco.
It's a measure of Dean's pace that he is adjusting his campaign to deal with his potential vulnerabilities in a general election. He started by attacking his rivals. Now, in various ways, he's in Bush's face.
The campaign plans to send a group of Texans to Iowa next month to try to persuade Iowans that Dean can beat their former governor.
Dean also uses Bush fundraising accomplishments to spur his own, challenging his supporters to match the president's totals at fundraising dinners. Bush raised a record-shattering $34.3 million in the second quarter. (By contrast, Kerry raised $5.9 million and Gephardt raised $3.9 million in April, May and June this year.)
After Bush raised $1 million in Portland, Ore., last week, Dean asked his supporters to come up with the same amount during his own four-day trip. Today is the last day. As of Monday evening, he had raised almost $630,000.
Two stops on Dean's trip this week ?- Portland and Seattle ?- closely followed Bush's appearances there. Dean drew more than 8,000 people at a Seattle rally Sunday and an overflow crowd at a small community center in Spokane Monday. He then left for a rally in San Antonio. Earlier this summer he ran a TV ad in Austin.
Some strategists from rival campaigns said Dean was wasting money and that Bush wouldn't even see the television spot because he was at his ranch in the Waco TV market.
"We didn't do that to get to Waco," Dean says. "We did that to get to Austin. We want to win the Texas primary." That's March 9.
The long timeline and paid field staff reflect Dean's study of insurgents past: Jimmy Carter, Gary Hart and John McCain. Dean says he learned that you can't "focus on just one state at a time. It goes so fast that if you're not ready ... ahead of time, you're dead."
Some political observers are convinced that Dean ?- or Kerry ?- will be politically dead after the New Hampshire primary, which traditionally culls the field. "Whoever wins will be the New England candidate," says Darrell West, a political scientist at Brown University in Providence. "The other will see his money dry up."
With Dean ahead of Kerry and pressure mounting, fireworks between the two could erupt at a Sept. 4 debate in New Mexico with all nine Democrats.
Meanwhile Dean is organizing in Kerry's home state, as well as Lieberman's and Gephardt's.
"We don't have illusions that we're going to knock off the favorite sons," Dean says, "but there are (convention) delegates to be had there and we're going to try to get them."

Hard-hitting on defense
Dean is in Falls Church, Va., for the first full-blown tryout of his new approach to defense issues. A crowd of several thousand is on hand Saturday.
Dean cites some of the Bush administration's arguments for going to war against Iraq ?- that nation's imminent nuclear capability, its attempt to buy uranium from Africa, its close ties with al-Qaeda, its weapons of mass destruction.
"I will never hesitate to send American troops anywhere in the world to defend our country," Dean says, "but I will never send our sons and our daughters... to die in a foreign country without telling the truth to the American people about why they are there."
Bush thinks "he's awful tough on defense," Dean says, but the candidate adds that the president can't find enough money to fund homeland security and cargo inspections or buy up enriched uranium from defunct Soviet-era weapons programs so terrorists won't get their hands on it.
"On his watch, North Korea's about to become a nuclear power because he won't sit down and talk with somebody he doesn't like," Dean says of the president's chilly relations with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. "As they say in Texas, when it comes to defense, this president's all hat and no cattle."
Cheers interrupt Dean as he delivers one applause line after another. But some in the crowd sense he is at a turning point. "I like his abrasive quality, the way he started shaking things up from the beginning," says Hope Brown, 33, of Cheverly, Md., a desktop publisher. But "he's going to have to tone it down in order to win. I think he already has started to tone it down."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2003-08-25-dean-usat_x.htm
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 07:04 am
...To chants of "lies, lies,'' Dean said Bush's reasons for the Iraq war were illegitimate, that he had failed to stand up to the Saudis on terrorism and refused to talk to Kim Jong-il simply because he did not like the North Korean leader.

Dean told reporters traveling on his 10-city "Sleepless Summer'' tour that he considered campaigning in Texas a challenge. He is the only Democratic contender to have bought television air time in Austin, running ads earlier in the month critical of Bush's stewardship of the economy and national security.

He said he knew the president when they both served as governors: Dean of tiny, rural Vermont, and Bush of Texas.

"I liked him,'' Dean said. ``I thought then we could do business. I was shocked at what he did after he became president.
I thought he'd govern as the compassionate conservative he campaigned as.''

In a speech sprinkled with bluntly partisan attacks on Bush leavened with occasional dashes of irony, Dean even turned the president's own 2000 campaign rhetoric on its head.

Instead of Bush's pledge to restore "honor and dignity'' to the White House, Dean promised to "restore the honor and dignity and respect this country deserves around the rest of the world.''Recent polls have put Dean at the head of the nine Democrats vying for their party's nomination.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/politics-politics-dean.html
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 07:16 am
*THUD*
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 07:23 am
The Austin American Statesman reports on a quick pit-stop Dean made in Austin yesterday afternoon before going on to San Antonio:


...Dean also challenged Bush to get tougher with Saudi Arabia, a nation Dean thinks Bush will not challenge because of America's dependence on Middle Eastern oil.

"We ought to be able to confront the Saudis, and this president doesn't have the backbone to do it," he said.

As he laid it on thick, Dean stopped and told the crowd, "If I do win the nomination, I won't get away with talking like this eight months from now; gotta to be presidential."
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 11:06 am
For the record, I find it very strange the coincidences between the deaths of Wellstone in 2002 and Carnahan from Missouri in 2000!
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 11:26 am
From the Zogby polls:




President George W. Bush’s job performance rating has slipped to 52% positive, 48% negative, according to a poll of 1,011 likely U.S. voters by Zogby International. From a post-September 11th peak of 82%, his rating has slipped steadily with the exception of a slight increase following the official end of the war in Iraq.

Bush Job Performance
Event
Positive %
Negative %

August 16-19, 2003
Current
52
48

July 16-17, 2003
Current
53
46

June 10, 2003
Post Iraqi War
58
41

March 16, 2003
Pre Iraqi War
54
45

September 25, 2002
One year Post 9/11
64
36

September 23, 2001
Post 9/11
82
17

August 27, 2001
Pre 9/11
50
49

April 26, 2001
100 Days in Office
52
44

January 16, 2001
Pre Inauguration
42
36


The ‘down’ trend is also seen in the percent of likely voters who say it’s time for someone new in the White House (48%), compared to 45% who said the President deserves to be re-elected.


Date
Re-Elect %
Someone New %

August 16-19, 2003
45
48

July 16-17, 2003
46
47

June 10, 2003
49
38

January 27, 2003
49
41

October 25, 2002
49
35

September 25, 2002
49
38



Nearly three in five (58%) respondents say they have a favorable opinion of the President as a person, while 40% say their opinion is unfavorable. In July polling, his rating was 57% favorable, 42% unfavorable.

Date
% Favorable
% Unfavorable

August 16-19, 2003
58
40

July 16-17, 2003
57
42

January 27, 2003
66
33

July 22, 2002
72
25

April 5, 2002
82
17

July 30, 2001
57
36

February 15, 2001
64
14


Just over two in five (43%) likely voters say they would choose President Bush over a Democratic candidate, and a like number (43%) preferred a Democrat if the election were held today, compared to July polling by Zogby International where 48% would choose Bush and 43% would favor any Democrat.

The Zogby America poll involved 1,011 likely voters selected randomly from throughout the 48 contiguous states using listed residential telephone numbers. Polling was conducted from Zogby International’s Call Center in Utica, NY on August 16-19, 2003. The poll has a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.2%.

Additional tracking information can be seen at www.zogby.com, Trends Over Time
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 11:36 am
Time for another war?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 11:40 am
Well, and we have the report on the WMD's coming out in September... Ritter's op-ed piece in yesterday's Times will set that up nicely...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 10:26 pm
This administraiton keeps reminding the American people about "terrorism," just in case our memory begins to forget. That's the "only" issue on which this president enjoys a high rating. c.i.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2003 11:44 pm
Joined the "University of Colorado Students for Howard Dean, today." Aren't I just the little political animal! Smile
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2003 09:23 am
hobitbob wrote:
Joined the "University of Colorado Students for Howard Dean, today." Aren't I just the little political animal! Smile



way to Go Hobitbob! Laughing
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2003 09:30 am
From the Dean blog ( http://www.blogforamerica.com ) this morning:


"...Thank you!
What an indescribable Sleepless Summer.

I spent the night at a college friend's apartment here in New York -- and the morning going back again over the photos from the Sleepless Summer Tour (here -- New York isn't up yet).

How to describe the electricity at Bryant Park? It was one of those moments that you want to hold on to for a long, long time. I wandered around the crowd beforehand, asking people why they were there -- "because he will tell me the truth," "because I am scared of where this country is going and he has that leadership," "because he has taken a strong position on disability rights," "because I want to learn more, but so far he seems to get it" "because I wanted to see the next President of the United States," "because he speaks for me, he speaks for us," "because the campaign makes me hopeful," "because of the people here," "because I believe he will make America a better community." I met several couples where one person was undecided and the other a strong Dean supporter, bringing their spouse or boyfriend along to engage them.

Thank you to everyone who rallied, who gave, who posted on this blog, and especially to those who brought new people into the campaign.

Over 92,000 people -- 92,010 -- have now signed up for the September 3rd Meetup. (This Meetup takes outreach to the next level -- make sure you go.)

330,934 Americans have now joined the campaign, and we have just 35 days to reach our goal of 450,000.

We all know there are millions of people, let alone 120,000, who would want to be part of what we all are doing.

Please, seize this moment and write an email to at least 10 friends today, telling them about why you are here and asking them to join us. Whether you contributed, attended one of the rallies, were here on the blog, went flyering in your community, were meeting people through the Get Local events, or simply talked to people you met on the subway about Dean, you were an integral part of these last four days, and your stories are what will make this campaign grow.

My friend, who has worked on over a half dozen campaigns, just poked his head up around the corner to where I'm typing to say -- "the people on the blog ... it's amazing ... its not really possible. You couldn't make up what they are writing. I'm so unprepared for that lack of cynicism. It's unbelievable."

You are unbelievable. Thank you.

Posted by Zephyr Teachout at 10:23 AM
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2003 10:19 am
They made their million. Million plus! I was afraid they might not this time.
0 Replies
 
 

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