It’s official… Bush has my vote and that’s final. This's why

Gustav, I haven't seen any press whatsoever about his child protection law. It would appear image-building was the motive.

Kicky, we are already at war, and providing Bush is re-elected, I believe it will be finished to our satisfaction. More importantly; the Azzholes of the world will take his re-election as a sign of approval from the citizens of the U.S... which means our threats will not be taken lightly, as they have for so long. It would take a pretty foolish leader to see our Navy steaming into their area without assuming we are serious again. That was Saddam's mistake, and I don't think anyone's in a hurry to repeat it. Terrorists? sure. State sponsors of terrorism? I doubt it.


I anticipated that foolish first question, but didn't expect it would come from you. I don't believe that the US, Britain or Oz are advocating rape and murder for crimes of dissention. Individuals from any country that choose to resort to such a tactic are guilty of crimes against humanity, and I prefer the lead in the head solution. In the case of Iraq it was ordered from the top and even performed by Uday or Qusay or both. These were not random acts by citizens of Iraq. This is from the STATE of Iraq against the citizens of Iraq, and there in lies the difference. This type of organized barbarism puts them on my "better off dead" list.

As for the starving parent selling their children, I would tend to agree with Rebel that there should be no consideration of motive for such a heinous act. However, these are not the perpetrators I was referring to. The "Cover to Cover" reporter toured have a dozen brothels where these child services could be had, and I don't think any of the employees were the parents of the children. IMHO, every one of the employees should get the lead in head, and the shooter should be eligible for the reward. 14-17 year old prostitutes is disgusting enough but these places were offering 5-13 year olds. That type of heinousness is in a class by itself. Nationality makes no difference, as this is a crime against humanity.

OCCOM BILL, you spek so often about humatity - well, may I quote from our Basic Law:



Therefor, we Germans never could join you (or [most of] your proposals), since EVERYONE has a human dignity. And there aren't human rights just for some but for all. Including terrorists.

I sincerely doubt that we will ever change these Basics Rights.

Article 1. of your Basic Human Rights Laws should be Global and rigorously enforced wherever feasible. The leaders of powerful Nations need to lead the way. I'm under no illusion that this is Bush's supreme goal, but his actions coincide with the steps that need to be taken. I agree that terrorists have human rights as well, but don't understand why violations of theirs, trumps all other violations in the press. A war on terror is going to be perpetual. A war on STATES that support and harbor them isn't. I believe Germany, like the U.S. and every other civilized country for that matter, does what it can to arrest terrorists on its soil. It is the countries that do not that are on my **** list. IMHO, this portion of the war can, should and must be won.

I'd love to know what the name of the law is, and when it was implemented, as well as what in the heck child prostitution in Phnom Penh has to do with Homeland Security.
However, it's very nice that Bush may have done something humane. I wonder who sponsored the bill, and who backed it? And whether or not we'd ever have heard of it, if he vetoed it instead?
Think about it, Bill. what US president wouldn't pass that? I hardly see it as a reason to give Bush four more years!

I beg your pardon, Bill - I thought you were advocating invasion of countries where children are sold for sex - but you are merely advocating mass executions in in that case (no point treading the weary rounds of the capital punishment arguments again) - you are advocating invasion of countries which treat their citizens really badly.

I think we can all identify with your desires and your rage. I work with the buggered kiddies, and some of the torture victims. Sometimes I want to run out and perform what I call post-natal abortions. Sometimes I wanna organize a middle-aged lady vigilante squad (who would suspect US??!!! I'd wear pearls, and get a perm, goddammit!) and take out the guys I know are gonna kill their ex-partners soon, or who are abusing their kids, cos the Family Court thinks parents' ownership rights are more important than kids' safety. Sometimes I wanna just quietly smother the crazed, violent, junkie mums who come into their kids' lives, for a brief moment, JUST as they were settling and healing, and adjusting to her being gone, for exactly the time it takes to stuff them up again, not a minute more, or less. I could go on, and on, and on.....

Bill, I like and respect you - a lot - but, if you cannot see the problems inherent in using US power to invade countries - even naughty countries - then I am at a loss to explain it, I think.

One simple question would be - who polices the policeman?

Another - what makes you thing the use of that sort of power would remain even simplistically benevolent?

Let us leave it.

Dlowan, the like and respect thing is mutual. You are one of my favorite people here.

Try to understand; it's world liberation I seek, not world domination. The paths may seem to lead in the same general direction, at first, but not in the long run. I believe that free trade agreements should cover every country on earth. Qualification should include basic human rights laws, like the German Law quoted by Walter. Those countries that wish to continue going the other way need to be dealt with harshly. I was born an American Citizen and would thank God every day of my life (if I believed in God). Why? Because to some extent; I control my own destiny. I am responsible for my own lot in life and with hard work can improve it. When I imagine being born some place where this isn't the case, I want this for those that were and will be.

The days when oppressed people could rise up and overthrow a brutal, ruthless, greedy despot are over. Saddam was famous for wiping out those who tried. In North Korea, Kim is so brutal the people wouldn't even dare to try. Imagine being hungry enough to eat dogs, tree-bark and sometimes even humans... and being powerless to do anything about it. This has got to stop. There is more than enough food on this planet for the inhabitants and when some greedy, brutal bastard like Kim steals the food aid and sells it on the black market while his people starve to death by the millions, that has to be a call to arms. Ignoring it is akin to walking past a rape in progress and minding your own business. It's not that I think my country is the greatest country in the world (you know how I feel about Costa Rica), it's that my country is the greatest in the world in all the ways that matter in this situation. We have the money. We certainly have the military might. All that's missing is the will to do what needs to be done.

The alternative is to sit on our hands while our brothers and sisters are starved, raped and murdered. We impose economic sanctions which make us feel all warm and fuzzy like we're actually making a difference. What difference? The despots don't suffer. The people do. It's really our way of assisting bastards like Kim in starving his people to death, in hopes that after several generations of horror he'll see the error in his ways, or perish. It also provides him with the a very logical reason for his citizens to blame us for there suffering. That is not a solution by itself. I believe the carrot needs to be accompanied by the stick. I care little for the sovereign rights of a murdering despot. The human rights need to come first. Kim has killed millions and if left alone, will kill millions more. There is no honor in starving to death. No purpose served. No good, no change will come from it. IMHO, if people are going to be killed it should serve a purpose and that purpose should be a better life for the generations to come as well as those suffering now.

Right now the United States has unrivaled economic and military superiority. This isn't pride talking; it's a simple, undeniable fact. Like no nation in the history of mankind; we have the power to rid the world of evil dictators. This superiority cannot, will not, last forever. Personally, I think our GDP will be matched or bettered by several nations in my lifetime. Money = Military power. Our window of opportunity is sliding shut. If we don't do the dirty work that needs to be done soon, I fear it will become too late. Many, if not most, think North Korea has already reached the Military point of no return, where it is impossible to oppose them, without killing millions of people in a matter of days. This leaves the people of North Korea with... what? Should we have waited for Iraq to reach that plateau? Should we wait for others to do it? I think not. I think it's crunch time and the decisions we are making today will either free people from the chains of oppression or condemn them to it permanently.

There is no hope of ending terrorism. The "global system" is only going to get bigger and stronger and there is always going to be fanatics that oppose it. We can't fight what we can't find. Bin Laden has proven that, and I'm sure there are others with names we haven't even heard. What we can do is eliminate breeding grounds for terrorists and by that I mean eliminate climates where people have no hope. I believe; at the rate technology is advancing we have two destinies to choose from. Share our good fortune with everyone by letting them deal with us on a level playing field and use our awesome might to stomp out those that would stop us from sharing with "their people"... Or, we can sit and count our money in our giant glass house, while much of the world is starving and suffering and wait for the desperate, to blow us to hell. I prefer the former.

The anti-war crowd generally offers that we should be taking steps to improve the conditions in the countries that produce our enemies. I agree completely and wonder if they ever wonder whether we might already be doing that very thing.

Oops! After all that I forgot to answer your questions. :wink:

Irrelevant. With or without police action on our part, no one but the American public is capable of policing us now (and depending who you ask; maybe not even them).

We can only hope.

turning into a liberal?

Sounds like it, huh Dys?!
You're talking like a Liberal, Bill.
Think about it...

Okay, as long as I don't have to stop being a Capitalist, an objectivist and a warmonger. I don't think my brand of altruism is going to get me invited to too many liberal gatherings. :wink: Perhaps you are just seeing the virtue of selfishness for the first time?

Perhaps Bill is just seeing the 'gray areas' for the first time in a dualistic system. Good on ya.

Thanks Cav, but if you look at my earliest posts you'll see I am more polite now, but my theory remains relatively unchanged.

Hmmm....sorry Bill, I missed the new poll. Personally, I think anyone dealing in child prostitution or child porn should be strung up by their balls for a few days and then executed slowly and painfully. What this has to do with Bush Jr. still escapes me.

Quite simply Cav, there are Asses that need kicking, and Bush seems to be the only candidate that wants to kick them. The fifth and sixth paragraphs of my first post on this thread are a bit convoluted, but I think they tie the two subjects together… enough for me anyway.

Okay, I'll take your word for it Bill. I'm not American anyway, so I don't need to make this decision.