Is this petite size bias?

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My daughter is small (like her mom) – not just height, but has a small build. She is very athletic and frequently is overlooked and/or underestimated because of her size. Although she has a small build, she is all muscle and much stronger than she appears.

A recent example is during her tryouts for varsity softball. The coach almost did not select her, but at the last minute, he added her to the team. She played so well she took a junior’s spot (my daughter was a freshman) as the starting 2nd baseman and was the leadoff batter the entire season. According to the woman in charge of high school stats – she did not have one error the entire season. Her first game she hit a home run.

This summer she played for a club softball team – an organization where girls play on team to hopefully prepare to play college softball. Again she played well – almost always was leadoff batter and started at second with sometimes playing center field because of her speed. Many times she was the clutch batter – hitting in runs when the team was behind to win games – this happened enough that her teammates would yell for her and call her clutch when they were behind and she up to bat.

This organization also has college showcase teams - teams that travel a lot so they can be seen by colleges. She tried out recently and did not get selected. Some of her teammates did even those that at least statistically were not as good as her. My husband called the woman that heads the organization and is key in deciding who makes this team to ask why she was not selected. She said she felt my daughter was not ready. She could not come up with a specific reason why – my husband stated her stats and even mentioned her one area where she is weaker – her throwing is not as strong as some others, but her accuracy surpasses any of the other girls she selected. As the others tend to over throw and cause errors.

I honestly think it is her size. In tryouts woman at first thought she was a younger player until someone corrected her and other things said made it sound this woman already wrote her.

Do you think it is size bias? Should we join another organization? My husband was offered a potential opportunity to help coach at another organization (which she would then get to play in) – it is smaller/less known so unsure about exposure vs. the one she is involved with now. She could still play showcase next year -her junior year- which would be when colleges would be looking at you (assuming she would be selected).

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If she's selecting by size she's an idiot and I'd reconsider the organization based on that alone. Those tiny strike zones are impossible!

Do you think it could have been a maturity issue? Not saying your daughter is immature but wondering if perhaps they'd had problems with younger players on a traveling team? Maybe they don't think she can be sufficiently committed?

Or maybe there is some politics involved?

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@Linkat,

Are the women who are selected for the college teams on the larger size of available players?

Do the travel teams get 'credit' for supplying college players?

What I'm wondering is if they're picking the kinds of players they think the college scouts are most interested in vs picking the best players.

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@boomerang,

The woman is 70 years old my thought old school. Have you seen the more recent college softball players --- they are many of them cute with makeup on - some are the typical big girls -some are the quick small girls. You need base hits sometimes.

Actually the maturity thing is what makes my daughter better. She is a mature hitter. Meaning she does not get impatient with pitches. Why she is a leadoff batter. She will take alot of pitches. She used to pitch a bit for less competive softball simply because she did not get rattled. The big thing is this girl is so cool under pressure. Why she is a clutch hitter. And for younger players -- they love her -- they look up to her so it isn't that. I think it could be politics.

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@ehBeth,

It used to be larger players - but it has changed. There is more strategy is softball now -- slap hitting is huge with quick runners. The game has changed alot. The woman that heads this up is 70 years old and I wonder if she is so old school she isn't up to date.

We talked with a mom whose is on my daughter's high school team that also plays for this organization. She kind of helps old with the organization as well as was the stats person for the high school team. She said she was surprised my daughter did not make one of the showcase teams and thought her tryouts was great. She did say that one of the teams (who was actually the state champ team) for her age (non-college showcase) had great coaches better than one of the showcase teams. Meaning they are one of the teams that have the new viewpoints of coaching - similar to current college coaching.

So I guess our thoughts are - she is to play on this team or else not play for the organization. Then next year she would need to play for one of the "gold" showcase teams to be really visible. I think some of her former teammates are on the non-gold teams which is probably just an ok team.

At least she should get excelllent coaching if she makes this one younger coached team which won states last year which is even more important and will develop her further than making an ok college showcase team and we expect her to show this woman just how great she is.

Funny aside --- in travel I remember an opposing coach seeing her up at bat -- her told his team to move in (to him what can this little girl hit) and then she whaled a ball over the heads of everyone --- he didn't make that mistake the next time she was at bat.

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@Linkat,

did u see this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3955357

4'11, but feisty....

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Crazy now - we know another girl that was on the state winning team-she was a year older than my daughter and on the same high school team -- one of the coaches is moving so she will definately not be coaching this next year. Not sure on the other coach. Her dad is considering the same team that was offerred to my husband to help coach - more to come as the expected head coach is on vacation this week.

Who would have thought so much drama. Also said dad I do not think knows about my husband being approached.

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@hawkeye10,

thank you so much - this sounds so much like my daughter and she is actually taller 5'2"
I think this will help her alot.

I might try to do a search for her and see if my daughter could hook up with her as a mentor. Great help.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

thank you so much - this sounds so much like my daughter and she is actually taller 5'2"
I think this will help her alot.

I might try to do a search for her and see if my daughter could hook up with her as a mentor. Great help.

you are welcome....give her the speech that life is not fair, that to be considered as good as the bigger girls she needs to be twice as good, and that you believe she can do it like Kelley Montalvo did.

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@hawkeye10,

thanks - I've given that speech or simlar she used to play basketball (while still playing softball) and I told her because of her size she has to been 10 times better. Softball actually fits her better. She is more patient thus why she is leadoff batter - and her quickness helps her play in field and steal bases. Her favorite thing is to steal home base.

She is Dustin Peodrio basically in softball. I can tell you she is fun to watch -- her last game this season the ump kept calling her a superstar as she dove and got quick popups and made unbelieveable quick plays on line drives.

The thing she has always had to fight for her spot why she ended up being the starting 2nd baseman in varsity while only a freshman and being leadoff batter. It just pains me to continue to see this as a parent --- I do know it will only make her stronger in the long run.

The thing is her younger sister is bigger (comparsion to her age) so she hasn't had to work as hard -- although she is very athletic as well - just people don't question her abilities as much.

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In the conversation my husband had with the head of this organization -- (prior to this woman having to cut it short for another call) --- the woman said something along the lines -- of course you feel this way she is your daughter (meaning he is biased on her abilities). My husband said did you talk to her coach? You can confirm everything I said about her with her coach -- her club coach within the organization and her high school coach.

Well not realizing -- she did. Her coach confirmed everything my husband said -- clutch hitter, no errors, highest on base percentage, speed. The only negative he said was that her throwing arm needs work -- which is the one weakness my husband mentioned, but she compensates with quick reactions and throwing accuracy -- which most of her teammates lack.

Also not knowing to us -- she did speak with this other mom --- the mom of a girl she plays with on the high school team who has been on the showcase team. She keeps the records for the high school team. When the head of the organization mentioned the weak arm this mom said she did not agree. She said my daughter makes every play and gets the out.

Long story short -- my daughter is now going to be selected for one of the showcase teams. Just a matter of which one. It is obvious that the woman never even considered her. Now I do appreciate that she at least cared enough to check on the facts -- I don't know the details as we haven't yet talked with the coach. But this record keeping mom called my husband and let him know what went on.

We plan on proving that this is not a mistake. Not that we were not going to do this -- but she has been taking sports performance training classes all summer - 3 days a week. We are also going to get her arm strength up with weights to make her stronger. Can't change size, but she can work on everything else. Unfortunately this is not new for her -- as she had to prove she deserved a spot on the high school varsity team -- she will prove herself yet again I am confident.

I haven't told her yet as I want to make sure we get confirmation on all of it first.

But thanks for hearing me out.

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@Linkat,

Quote:

Unfortunately this is not new for her -- as she had to prove she deserved a spot on the high school varsity team -- she will prove herself yet again I am confident.

over the coming years it will get increasingly difficult for her to compensate for her smallness and to produce, the competition always gets rougher but your daughter will also face the bigger girls growing into their bodies and learning to use them better. MLB has occasionally had 5-5 guys on the roster, she can make it while being short, but it will be really really hard to do.

Still, today is a day to celebrate the here and now...she has over come being written off for her size...again. That takes some doing. Today is pat on the back time.

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@Linkat,

Good for you and your husband, good for your daughter, and good for the team! Everybody wins! Nicely done.

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@Linkat,

Sounds like good job interview. Forget the less outstanding throwing. Concentrate on the positives and never ever mention a negative. Two years into the job (or team) all they will remember from the interview is the one solitary thing you mentioned during an hour long interview.

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@hawkeye10,

Thank you - I agree. I think we also learned something. We need to be very smart on how to market her - in such a way that people are not writing her off.

I was thinking that sometimes when she makes these great plays is almost makes me cry. There was one play in high school where this hard shot went towards her in the air. It was over her head making it difficult to catch and it was a bullet - she simply reacted jumped up and made the catch. Her high school commented that you were 6 feet tall when you made that play.

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@roger,

Great thought - talk about her reaction time and accuracy and ability to get every out.

Whether she goes on and makes division 1 or 2 softball in college (no doubt she could make a division 3 team) -- just right now it is great to know you have the opportunity.

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So now that she is on the silver team -- the coach said she was borderline to make the gold team - still on a college showcase which is fine for this year.

Any way all the college showcase players practice together gold and silver. The last practice they have a contest. Basically it was to see who could make the in field plays. They divide the girls in half -- with each coach hitting infield type balls. My daughter gets the coach that hits much harder. The best infielder is up -- a short stop on the gold team. She makes 14 in row before missing one. My daughter gets up -- beats her -- not by one or two -- she makes 24 in a row and almost makes the 25th it gets falls out of her glove. She is diving and jumping to try and make every play -- she was damned determined.

The two go head to head -- the best from both sides -- my daughter beats her again. And she is a year younger.

They have a run the bases contest -- nope she didn't win that one -- she comes in second again from a girl much taller and a year older.

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Perhaps the lady is jealous of your athletic warrior girl, like most people on here are of me.

All the power to those who transcend beyond social expectations to the point nobody wants to be by your side.

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@Linkat,

Quote:

They divide the girls in half ...

How tragic!

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@One Eyed Mind,

No I don't think so.

One of the mom's whose daughter has played for this coach/owner of the organization for a couple of years was asked what do you think of this girl when referring to my daughter. She told me said you would be making a big mistake if you don't take her. This mom told me she thinks the coach is very old school and sorta feels that smaller girls aren't as good. The woman is close to 70 years old.

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Is this petite size bias?

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