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Any proven methods to become fluent in Japanese?

 
 
Reply Wed 19 May, 2004 11:14 pm
I'm trying to become fluent while studying after work. I'm looking into Pimsleurs and was wondering if anyone can tell me about it. Also, if anyone knows some proven textbooks, cd's and tapes that worked for them please let me know. I think learning kanji's helps to improve speaking ability so any good kanji work books will also help. I don't have time to go to school, even in the evening, so I'm not looking for these ideas.

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Exister -
 
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Reply Wed 19 May, 2004 11:20 pm
Forgot to mention that I can read and write hiragana and katakana. I live in Japan and my gf is Japanese. I can speak basic Japanese so what I need is advanced stuff. More along the line of business Japanese.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Wed 19 May, 2004 11:29 pm
Exister, It's my understanding that you want to be in Osaka to learn business Japanese. Our friends older son lived in Japan for about one year, and when he came back to California, he was fluent in the language. Wink
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Monger
 
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Reply Wed 19 May, 2004 11:32 pm
Hi Elixer, welcome to Able2Know Smile
I don't really have any experience with study materials, I just grew grew up over there... However, I've heard that the Japanese for Busy People series and the Berlitz book are good places to start. Not sure though if they're on your level.
Since you're currently living in Tokyo, I'd say tapes are a bit superfluous right now. having your gf as a language exchange partner to practice the stuff in your book or on your tape should definitely help a lot.
If you go to a Kinokuniya (particularily a big one in Shinjuku) or Tower Records in Shibuya you should be able to find a good selection of Japanese-learning books which you can look through beforehand to see if you think they'll help you. Of course decent-sized libraries should also have a selection to check out, & there are smaller bookstores everywhere, though I dunno what sort of selections they'd offer for learning Japanese.
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Exister -
 
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Reply Wed 19 May, 2004 11:33 pm
I'm already working as a full-time employee near tokyo. Moving to Osaka would be impossible. I'm around Japanese people all day because I work for a Japanese company. The reason I'm looking for audio learning methods is because they allow me to listen to it while working. Most people would say I'm fluent in Japanese until they see me in a business meeting. Then of course I've heard Japanese tell any foreigner they're fluent when saying the simplest of things. Fluency to me is when you can translate between both languages. Thanks for the suggestions. I have a copy of "Japanese for busy people" and went to the Kinokuniya in Shinjuku. I've started reading Manga and that has helped abit. I guess I'm sorta hoping there's a product or method out there that I don't know of.
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Monger
 
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Reply Thu 20 May, 2004 12:12 am
What about software? If you have a laptop & you're on the metro a lot (I know I was when working in Tokyo) that might be a decent option. Again, I've not used any such software but I know Berlitz has a program for learning Japanese, though it may be basic, & I have no idea if it's any good.

Freeware: KanjiBrowse - http://www.stackz.com/KanjiBrowze/kbrDownload.htm (screeenshot)

Shareware: KanjiQuick Voice http://www.japanese.de/KanjiQuick_e.html (includes KanjiQuickDictionary, KanjiTranser, EDICT Reader and KanjiQuickVoice which will read any Japanese text in a female voice - voice demo)
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Exister -
 
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Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 12:25 am
Thanks for those links. I'm not on the metro, at all actually, but can dl it to my comp at work.
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mezzie
 
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Reply Fri 21 May, 2004 11:27 am
There are no shortcuts or "miracle products" to become fluent in any language, Japanese included.

Japanese is unique because of the horribly complicated writing system. If you want to improve fluency, you have to practice speaking with native speakers in a variety of contexts.

To improve your vocabulary, you have to study kanji (espcially 2-character compounds). Study words related to your work, because you'll hear them a lot, and see them a lot on paperwork. Remember that business meetings require A LOT of specialized vocabulary unique to your field. A native Japanese speaker would likely not be able to follow a business meeting in a field unrelated to their own, so it's not unexpected that you have trouble!

Passive learning by listening to language tapes while you work will likely NOT be effective at all. Language learning is an active pursuit.

You're in the country, so take advantage of your time there. Study your grammar and kanji from textbooks at night when you're at home, and then take what you've learned and try as much as possible to put it into practice during the day.

Since you already have Japanese for Busy People and you're reading manga, you have some decent references. The Berlitz book is decent, but short. You might want to pick up a grammar reference.

Another very effective way to study is to be goal-oriented: prepare for

1. The Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT)
http://momo.jpf.go.jp/hiroba/e/about_e.html
- this is an academic test, really designed for university students; can substitute as a language waiver when entering a Japanese university, much like TOEFL for foreigners studying in the States

2. The JETRO Business Japanese Test http://www.jetro.go.jp/it/e/bj/
- this is probably the one that is most relevant to you; I haven't taken it and therefore don't know too much about it, but it will likely be the most fun to prepare for

or if you're very adventurous and ambitious, even

3. The native Kanji Kentei Shiken http://www.kanjiclinic.com/reviewkanken.htm
- if you're a kanji buff and have TONS of time on your hands, this is a fascinating and challenging test; If you pass level pre-2, 2, pre-1 or 1, you'll have your name published in a national magazine; aim for levels 10, 9, 8 or 7 at first, and work your way up

Buy study materials for those and work towards the different levels. For JETRO, get a language exchange partner (NOT your girlfriend, trust me! You'd be best off getting a male partner) and work through material together, prepare questions in advance, role play and practice dialogues.

There's absolutely no reason to move to Osaka to learn business Japanese. Tokyo is the business capital of the country, and you'll hear the standard language there. As for the polite language, as long as you stick to -desu -masu forms, you'll be safe in most settings (unless you suddenly have a date with the emperor!). As your proficiency improves, you'll notice the forms Japanese people use amongst themselves and be able to adapt your language appropriately. Since you're male, pay close attention to the way your male co-workers talk amongst themselves and how they talk to their superiors. Don't fall into the trap of emulating female speech patterns like many of the American military do!

Also, it is impossible to become fluent in Japanese in one year unless you are a very young child, and in that case, you'd lose it rapidly upon returning to your native country unless you use it. Learning Japanese will be an extremely rewarding (and frustrating!) lifelong pursuit, and your improvement will go up gradually, but in waves. Don't get discouraged by the troughs, and take advantage of the peaks (crests?)!

It is, on the other hand, very possible to develop a reasonable level of conversational proficiency in a year, enabling you to interact in many different contexts, such as grocery shopping, banking, etc. But don't expect to be able to watch TV shows, follow business meetings, or follow casual conversations of native speakers when out on the town. Don't let that discourage you; on the contrary, it is extremely satisfying to pass certain benchmarks of proficiency such as successfully ordering a product over the phone and explaining where you live to the delivery-person! Smile

Good luck and hope that helps Smile

I also hope you didn't think this post sounded too negative. I just think it's a shame to see so many people fall into the common traps of language learning and just sort of drift through their very valuable time in Japan without really taking full advantage of it. Then they come home and think "damn, I should've done more!" Use the language, carry a notebook and write down interesting grammar points, kanji, whatever, and then review, assimilate and use your new tools every day, as often as possible. Be inquisitive, be active, and be open-minded. And above all, don't be afraid of making mistakes!
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