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Is "compassionate conservatism" a slogan and nothing more?

 
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:49 pm
A few items where Bush actually has direct control over the specific issue:

Executive Order President's Task Force to Improve Health Care Delivery for Our Nation's Veterans

Executive Order for Community-based Alternatives for Individuals with Disabilities

Executive Order - 21st Century Workforce Initiative

Executive Order on Excellence in Special Education

President's Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans

President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health

Unlike issues such as the budget, where actual control over what is spent is in the hands of the Congress not the President, these are all items that Bush has direct authority to do.
0 Replies
 
JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:49 pm
CompassionateConservative

One who, or that which, preserves from ruin, injury, innovation, or radical change; a preserver; a conserver.

The Holy Spirit is the great conservative of the new life.

2. One who desires to maintain existing institutions and customs; also, one who holds moderate opinions in politics; -- opposed to revolutionary or radical.

3. (Eng. Hist.) A member of the Conservative party.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:51 pm
It's the same all over the world:

"Bush's Bitter Medicine: The poor need cheap drugs, not cheap talk"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,866445,00.html
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:52 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Denigrating the source, now. *sigh*

Bush DIDN'T say that? Those AREN'T the numbers? I suppose if Limbaugh.com specifically refuted either of those items then I would either have to accept it or denigrate your source, now wouldn't I?

Last request, Lash, or be gone from my thread:

Where's the proof Bush is a compassionate conservative, PLEASE?


As I stated, I would not use Rush, or any other agenda-bound source as an evidentiary source.

But, accepting the source in this case is OK. The fact is they anticipate raiding.

I am gathering material to support Compassionate Conservatism, unless you prefer those of different beliefs do not post here. From your rudeness, it appears that you don't want to hear dissenting views. Maybe you should just say so.

A straight response here will take care of this immediately. Is this not a debate thread? If not, my apologies. I assumed it was.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:54 pm
PDiddie - it will prevent your forum being stretched if you use the URL link feature on the tool bar above your post -- it allows you to title your link without using a long address which stretches your forum window into scrolling left and right.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 07:55 pm
It doesn't have to be ALL about Bush, or even poor people, though:

"Majority Leader Frist asked to Atone for Adopting and Then Killing Cats":

Excerpt:

"Frist acknowledged in a 1989 book that he routinely killed cats while an ambitious medical student at Harvard Medical School in the 1970s. His office said it had no record on how many cats died. Frist disclosed that he went to animal shelters and pretended to adopt the cats, telling shelter personnel he intended to keep them as pets. Instead he used them to sharpen his surgical skills, killing them in the process."

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021231-071056-3546r
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:00 pm
Is there another compassionate conservative named Bush?

Well, if there is, his first name ain't Jeb:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4831359.htm

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4837526.htm
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:08 pm
Bush's War Against Older Workers
by Congressman Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Excerpt:

"President Bush may or may not go to war against Iraq, but we do know that he has already declared war against the economic well-being of the middle class and working families of this country.

While he cuts back on Medicare and the needs of veterans, he wants even more tax breaks for the very richest people in this country. While he pushes efforts to privatize Social Security, there is no attempt to raise the minimum wage above its paltry $5.15 an hour. While he expands our disastrous trade policies that have already cost us millions of decent paying manufacturing jobs, he is proposing to slash the pay and benefits of federal employees through a massive and dangerous contracting-out scheme. While our healthcare system disintegrates and prescription drug costs soar, his Administration proposes legislation written by and for the pharmaceutical industry.

And now, in the midst of all of this, there is a new economic assault being waged against older American workers. The Bush Administration has recently proposed IRS regulations that would allow corporations to undertake a major raid on the pension benefits that older workers have accumulated. These new proposals, if adopted, would allow companies to avoid federal anti-age discrimination laws, and convert traditional defined benefit pension plans into so-called "cash balance" plans. Under the proposal, promises made to older workers about pension plans that increase retirement benefits based on longevity would be undermined. While corporations would save billions in pension expenditures, some 8 million older workers could see their benefits reduced by 30-50 percent.

Cash balance payment plans have rightfully been condemned by a variety of groups, including the AARP, the Pension Rights Center and the AFL-CIO, because they target the benefits of older workers in violation of current federal law. The Equal Employment Opportunities Commission (EEOC) has received over 800 complaints related to cash balance conversions. And, since September 1999, the IRS has withheld approval of these plans because of concern about their age discriminatory effect. Now, however, the Bush Administration wants to allow these conversions to go into effect."

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/12/28_Workers.html

(Can I expect anyone to say that a Congressman's opinion is not valid just because of where it was published? Gosh, I hope not...)
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:14 pm
I must be an excessively slow reader, or you guys are extremely fast.

Faithbased initiatives
are one program.

I have not linked before. Will see what happens. I am off to find more.
(fishin had a very good sampling.)
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:20 pm
"Faith-Based Intitatives" are an example of compassionate conservatism or a payoff to the Ralph Reed faction of conservatives?

I'm confused...this is relevant how?
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:26 pm
I don't see why Faith Based inititives should be considered any more or less irrelevant than the posting of opinion pieces that contain nothing but conjecture and don't address specific actions of the Bush administration.

In Congressman Sander's article you quoted he neglects to mention that the "cuts" he lists that have gone into effect were all initiated and passed by the Congress as was the tax cut which several of the pieces you've listed have mentioned. The Medicare cuts were a result of Legislation passed 6 years ago that no one has addressed until within the last 6 months.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:28 pm
As we prepare to send more young men and women off to battle in the Middle East, it would be valuable to see how the veterans from the last Gulf War are being treated by their VA:

The Fallout of War

(Vets figured to get a better shake under Bush than they did Clinton. They were wrong, and they are pissed.)
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:32 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Bush's War Against Older Workers
by Congressman Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Excerpt:

"President Bush may or may not go to war against Iraq, but we do know that he has already declared war against the economic well-being of the middle class and working families of this country.

While he cuts back on Medicare and the needs of veterans,
Here, I agree. From personal experience, what is being done to American Vets is deplorable. Have contacted my Senators, and e-mailed Principi and the WH so much, I'm probably under surveillance.
he wants even more tax breaks for the very richest people in this country.Does anyone know where I can find the standing tax percentages, and the proposed.
While he pushes efforts to privatize Social Security, there is no attempt to raise the minimum wage above its paltry $5.15 an hour.
Does everyone think the min. wage should be increased? I don't.
While he expands our disastrous trade policies that have already cost us millions of decent paying manufacturing jobs, What disasterous trade policies?
he is proposing to slash the pay and benefits of federal employees through a massive and dangerous contracting-out scheme.
Does anybody know what scheme this is?
While our healthcare system disintegrates and prescription drug costs soar, his Administration proposes legislation written by and for the pharmaceutical industry. The healthcare system IS a mess, and was before Bush. "Legislation for and by the pharmaceutical companies? Do you have an example?

And now, in the midst of all of this, there is a new economic assault being waged against older American workers. The Bush Administration has recently proposed IRS regulations that would allow corporations to undertake a major raid on the pension benefits that older workers have accumulated. These new proposals, if adopted, would allow companies to avoid federal anti-age discrimination laws, and convert traditional defined benefit pension plans into so-called "cash balance" plans. Under the proposal, promises made to older workers about pension plans that increase retirement benefits based on longevity would be undermined. While corporations would save billions in pension expenditures, some 8 million older workers could see their benefits reduced by 30-50 percent.This does sound bad, but more of the story is companies ( not Fortune 500s) can't afford their part of health insurance. The oldsters' costs are through the roof. I saw a docu on it. Just like Social Security, this is something that must change due to our aging population.

Cash balance payment plans have rightfully been condemned by a variety of groups, including the AARP, the Pension Rights Center and the AFL-CIO, because they target the benefits of older workers in violation of current federal law.Sure, they don't like it. It's a necessary evil, but they are the ones who will be affected first. I don't like it either. Mostly, it is the already retired oldsters, who still have a healthcare benefit as part of their retirrement plan. The costs are extraordinary. The Equal Employment Opportunities Commission (EEOC) has received over 800 complaints related to cash balance conversions. And, since September 1999, the IRS has withheld approval of these plans because of concern about their age discriminatory effect. Now, however, the Bush Administration wants to allow these conversions to go into effect."
A change MUST occur. Maybe, the Democrat party can come up with a better idea.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/12/28_Workers.html

(Can I expect anyone to say that a Congressman's opinion is not valid just because of where it was published? Gosh, I hope not...)
Never fear. At least these were more specific, and addressable. But on some of the points, I need to find more information as befits an informed response.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:37 pm
"Legislation for and by the pharmaceutical companies? Do you have an example?"

You are unfamiliar with the Eli Lilly amendment in the Homeland Security legislation?

I'll cite it if necessary, but surely you're aware...

"But on some of the points, I need to find more information as befits an informed response."

I'll e-mail the good Congressman for clarification for you.

You'll forgive me if I believe his opinions carry more weight than yours.
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:38 pm
PDiddie wrote:
"Faith-Based Intitatives" are an example of compassionate conservatism or a payoff to the Ralph Reed faction of conservatives?
That would be the former.
I'm confused...this is relevant how?
These initiatives are designed to offer low income families a private education for their children, assistance with home ownership, and training welfare recipients for work.
Sounds compassionate to me.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:38 pm
Religions are suppose to already be compassionate and only the likes of a Jerry Falwell can be determined as conservative. Do I want one cent of my tax money going to him. Not. The iniviative is rife with problems of what religious organizations will get the money, how much and how they are selective about who can receive help. If one believes there is no buraucracy in churches, think again. What does one think happened with the Catholic church and pedophile problem but gross bureaucratic mistakes.

I had a personal business experience with the bureaucracy of the Methodist Church, one of the most liberal churches, in a lighting project. I'm still laughing.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:39 pm
You ARE an RNC staffer, aren't you? :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:42 pm
PDiddie wrote:
"Legislation for and by the pharmaceutical companies? Do you have an example?"

You are unfamiliar with the Eli Lilly amendment in the Homeland Security legislation?Actually, I am familiar. I just thought most people agreed that in the instance of a national threat, and the fact our government asked a pharmaceutical company to redevelop an antidote (or vaccine) for a biological weapon, it would be ridiculous to open them to lawsuits.

I'll cite it if necessary, but surely you're aware...

"But on some of the points, I need to find more information as befits an informed response."

I'll e-mail the good Congressman for clarification for you.

You'll forgive me if I believe his opinions carry more weight than yours.You are forgiven. I was wondering when you'd make nice.
:wink:
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:43 pm
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/136/22.0.html
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jan, 2003 08:44 pm
PDiddie wrote:
As we prepare to send more young men and women off to battle in the Middle East, it would be valuable to see how the veterans from the last Gulf War are being treated by their VA:

The Fallout of War

(Vets figured to get a better shake under Bush than they did Clinton. They were wrong, and they are pissed.)


How does your last comment here jive with the referenced article? Did you read the article? You'll note that there are several mentions in there of how changes within the VA are ensuring Gulf War Vets get disability benefits and treatment - something stridently denied them under the prior administration.

"Here, too, is a recent determination from the Department of Veterans Affairs, ruling Stutts fully disabled and citing "neurotoxin exposure" during his deployment. Now he is a patient at a VA clinic in nearby Lexington, where 100 Gulf War vets..."

"After 11 years, the VA and Pentagon no longer dispute that troops got sick. They've spent hundreds of millions of dollars studying why."

"Some VA and Pentagon officials say the rate is inflated by the government's recent, more liberal policies of evaluating service-related illnesses."

Those quotes from within the article you reference dispute your own claims here.
0 Replies
 
 

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