Can you Americans defend this!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

I heard some news about it but wasn't really sure what he did and what happened. Here's the story.


1. I think the sentence is fair since it is the maximum sentence that could be imposed on him for what he did. He didn't torture anyone as you said in your question.

2. I would feel the same for any soldier from another country who did the same thing. He didn't do very much, really. The major criminals are coming up next.

3. I think the US government would say in the beginning that "The criminals must be punished." Then, after they were sent to prison, the US would say "We are satisfied."

The trial itself is a very good thing to at least one Iraqi:


Reading the rest of the story, this guy sounds like a decent kid who was invited into a place where he didn't belong. And he got caught up in the activities to where he took a picture when he was asked to do so. And when they started doing the really sick stuff, he had to leave.

I think the prison sentences for the really bad guys will be a lot longer.

Thank You Tarqantulas for giving the facts. Your comment about the "maximum sentence" was very important.

I don't know, so I will not presume to comment on punishment meted out bycourts in Bosnia or Croatia.

However, Myownusername should be aware that the US courts are, as far as many conservatives are concerned, extrordinarily lenient with regard to
sentencing. Myownusername should be aware that one of the major reasons for the leniency is the fact that the court system is very overcrowded and therefore the state prosecutors do utilize the plea bargain procedures quite frequently. These procedures allow criminals to plead guilty to a lesser crime and therefore, some in the USA think they are not receiving the penalties they should get.

Now, the Military Justice System is a little more rigid than the civilian one due to the Military Code.
Nontheless, the US population, accustomed to seeing miscreants receive much lesser punishments than they should in the civilian system, will generally be shocked at the severity of the sentences handed out by the military.

If MyOwnUserName were able to sit in on a CriminalCourt proceeding in the USA in almost any major American city, he would certainly be appalled!!!

What does maltreat mean if not abusing?

tr.v. mal·treat·ed, mal·treat·ing, mal·treats

To treat in a rough or cruel way; abuse.
mal·treatment n.

yes, my question initially goes from same point of view revel provided and from same source. If that source is not relevant or is lying, well, then it is different story.

mporter, I understand. But on the other hand, if I recall that correctly, in some states you can go in jail for life for three minor crimes.

As of being appaled I don't know at this moment - I will have to check in dictionary first

Yes, to maltreat and to abuse are the same thing. But to maltreat isn't the same thing as to torture.

The word "subordinates" in the article is misleading when you look at the following paragraph where it tells his specific acts which involved detainees.

If the prisoner's hands and feet were crushed, I don't know, I would think that would classify as torture.

In addition to the year he gets and the dishonorable discharge he gets....he will probably have the **** beaten out of him on a regular basis while in jail and perhaps even be raped for being a snitch, so he will get a chance to see how the people he photographed felt.

Nothing worse than a snitch. Nothing.

Justice, in its own way then, will be served.

Yes, yes. But the point of the thing was to ask whether Americans would be willing to let a person who criminally abused AMERICAN prisoners off so lightly - for any reason.

Your response re Bosnians did not address this issue.

'Twas all in the relativities.

Bosnians, Australians, Candians, check it out. We are all 'Ian's'. I formally dub myself 'Ian McCav.'

Now 'Americans' says 'I can', which I suppose gives them the false impression that they can do anything they want.

Not trying to be picky but I don't see how you got there. In his 3 questions he never limits the abuse to Americans. That may very well have been the intent but I read it as any country sentencing of one of their own for abusing someone from any other country whether that be Iraqis abusing Americans, Peruvians abusing Brazilians or Russians abusing Germans.

Probably the majority of A2Kers are opposed to the death penalty for any criminal no matter how unconscionable the crime.

Recently a father who brutally tortured and beat his two-year-old son to death was sentenced to five years with time served. He'll be out in a year and a half.

Gang members who beat up two young men and sent them to the hospital here in Albuquerque were sentenced to six months. Most such crimes aren't even charged.

Even in the Vietnam era, I don't remember any hue and cry from Americans to track down and punish those who detained and seriously abused our POWs such as John McCain et al. Nor do I remember any demands to the host country to do so.

I saw no headlines in American newspapers demanding that Daniel Perle's or Nick Berg's murderers be tracked down and executed.

I think given the same set of circumstances, where American prisoners were humiliated but not seriously physically injured, we would express outrage and bring it up on message boards now and then, but in real life would pretty much shrug and let it drop.

The reporting from the trial suggested this soldier was aware of and did not report the abuses but was minimally involved hands on. He has not admitted even taking photographs.

In light of how we react to much worse crimes, the soldier receiving reduction in rank, a year in federal pen, and a bad conduct discharge seem almost excessive. I personally think the sentence was just provided others who committed worse are sentenced accordingly.

Okay, read the following very carefully...


Sivits didn't step on anyone's hands or feet. That was done by other soldiers who haven't been to their trials yet. I'm sure they will be punished much more severely for what they did.

Actually, You don't go to jail for "three minor crimes". You go to jail for committing three felonies. If anyone is stupid enough to committ three felonies, he or she probably belongs in jail for a long time. ( And keep them away from sharp scizzors.

depends what are three felonies. maybe I agree maybe I don't - so, can you, if possible, tell me example of three felonies? Of course, don't choose worst kind, rather smallest felonies that can send you in jail for life or for really long time.

There have been more pictures and classified testimony leaked to the washington post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/swornstatements042104.html

(I think you have to register and have real player if you want to watch the videos)

I wonder how long they are going to keep saying, "a few bad apples?"

Revel - isn't that the Russian name for the Estonian capital of Tallinn?

Try to understand that GWBUSH lost the general election...he does not represent America. Those who were too disenchanted with our political system and didn't even bother to vote in the first place are now part of the majority of those American's who are only counting the days until November when we can elect a new leader and attempt to regain some of what this administration has trashed. In all of the 228 years of American History, no one man has done so much damage to the Bill or Rights, either here (at home) or abroad.

Please understand, that American's, more so than those who might judge us, realize what is at stake here.

Those pictures do not represent "a few bad apples"...but rather the VERY BAD leadership of GW and his contempt for any and all humans who stand in the way of his short sighted ambitions. Victory at any price, beginning with his Faux Election in 2000. He got rid of Saddam...so???? now what? and at what price?

No, America can NOT defend those photos. We can only apologize and show the world that we MEAN IT when we vote in a new administation in November.

rafalah, Welcome to A2K. It'll be interesting to see how the historians record this history for future generations.