Is this public awareness poster from the NHS offensive to women?

@chai2,

Quote:

Exactly, to both izzy and engineer.....

So we should keep our mouths shut as a society and not warn young women that it is not safe to drink to the extreme of being incapacitated in unsafe locations as it tend to raise the risks of being sexual assaulted?

It is far better to have more rape victims then to take the chance that someone will take the view that the message somehow imply that only drunken sluts get rape?

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Reminding people to use common sense isn't bad, is it? Why does the NHS feel it just needs to warn women of the dangers of excess drinking?

The same sort of problem is creeping up in the medical profession today, in the USA. Physicians, who are internists/primary care physicians, are being encouraged to ask their patients ( at all levels of society ), during the medical interview, whether they own guns.

Basically it's no one's business if you own a gun, and it shouldn't be part of the medical exam. If there is concern about patients owning guns, why not refer the patient to a Social worker, or better yet, let a Police officer ask the patient a serious of questions about gun ownership ( could lead to big time trouble for the police officer).

By the way, any patient does have the right to refuse to answer any medical professional when asked about gun possession, auto driving, or alcohol possession/drinking.

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Reminding people to use common sense isn't bad, is it? Why does the NHS feel it just needs to warn women of the dangers of excess drinking?

The same sort of problem is creeping up in the medical profession today, in the USA. Physicians, who are internists/primary care physicians, are being encouraged to ask their patients ( at all levels of society ), during the medical interview, whether they own guns.

Basically it's no one's business if you own a gun, and it shouldn't be part of the medical exam. If there is concern about patients owning guns, why not refer the patient to a Social worker, or better yet, let a Police officer ask the patient a series of questions about gun ownership ( could lead to big time trouble for the police officer).

By the way, any patient does have the right to refuse to answer any medical professional when asked about gun possession, auto driving, or alcohol possession/drinking.

1 Reply

@Miller,

Quote:

The same sort of problem is creeping up in the medical profession today, in the USA. Physicians, who are internists/primary care physicians, are being encouraged to ask their patients ( at all levels of society ), during the medical interview, whether they own guns.

The question was suggested to be ask to people with children in their households not everyone and with the idea if the answer is yes to give them advice of how to keep firearms safe in households with both children and guns.

Would you have a problem with a poster on the wall of pediatrician offices dealing with the important of taking safety precautions and what they happen to be if there are firearms in the home?

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

I think it all boils down to how you interpret the message. If you think that the poster is saying it's the woman's fault she got raped because she'd been drinking then of course it's offensive.

Part of the problem is the message's ambiguity--it can be interpreted as blaming a victim for her own rape. And, if looked at that way, the NHS message on binge-drinking in that poster is contra to its own message regarding rape and rape victims, which states that only the perpetrator, and not the victim, is to blame for a rape.

That sort of controversy also obscures the purpose of the poster, which is to try to control binge-drinking, not decrease rape, since discussion veers off into rape issues and not the general adverse effects of excessive alcohol consumption.

Since the use of this poster was discontinued in 2007, but it is still being displayed in some locations, I really don't understand why the NHS just doesn't remove those remaining posters since many people are finding them offensive now. What's the point of leaving them up? Why continue to generate controversy that actually detracts from the poster's real intent regarding binge-drinking?

Quote:

Drinking isn't a problem, binge drinking is. In many towns across the UK on a Friday and Saturday night you can see young people considerably the worse for wear. It's not just sexual assaults that are a problem, violence and drink related illnesses are another consequence, some people are getting cirrhosis of the liver in their late 20s/early 30s.

The same is true in the U.S. Repeated or regular excessive drinking--binge-drinking to the point of intoxication-- is alcohol abuse. And it is prevalent in the 18-24 year age group, and that alcohol abuse can carry significant health and functioning risks, and increased risks of injury/harm to self and others, and risk of addiction.

For some reason, too many people want to focus on rape or "drunken sex" rather than the often contributory problem of alcohol abuse and they regard the binge-drinking in the 18-24 year age group as normal and acceptable. Why is regular reliance on excessive drug use--and alcohol is definitely a drug--considered acceptable or normal? Even if engaged in only on weekends, episodic binge-drinking is still alcohol abuse and could be regarded as an alcohol abuse disorder. Why are so many young people drinking to get drunk?

Quote:

Despite the 21 year-old drinking age law, large numbers of young people under 21 are drinking, and often they are drinking heavily.
◾18-20 year olds experienced a 56% increase in binge drinking between 1993 and 2001.
◾More than 90% of all alcohol consumed by underage drinkers is consumed during binge drinking.
◾College students experienced a nearly 10% increase in the rate of drinking to get drunk between 1993 and 2001, which corresponded to an increase in consequences like injuries and assaults, and treatment for alcohol overdose.

These alarming rates have serious and even life-threatening implications for young people and the rest of society
◾Over 1,000 lives of 18-24 year-olds are lost annually to alcohol off the highways, a figure that has been increasing since 1998.
◾Approximately one in six teenagers has experienced ‘black out’ spells where they could not remember what happened the previous evening as a result of heavy alcohol use.
◾Among college students specifically, alcohol annually contributes to some 1,700 deaths, 599,000 injuries, and 97,000 cases of sexual assault.
◾Sixty percent of the deaths that occur as a result of underage drinking happen off the highways.
http://www.chooseresponsibility.org/learn-more/binge-drinking/binge-drinking-by-the-numbers/

Quote:

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) wrote in their fact sheet titled "Underage Drinking" on report.nih.gov (accessed Oct. 14, 2011):

"Alcohol is the drug of choice among America's adolescents, used by more young people than tobacco or illicit drugs... [T]here are 10.1 million underage drinkers in the United States... 39% of current 8th graders, 58% of 10th graders, 72% of 12th graders, and 85% of college students have tried alcohol.

Particularly worrisome among adolescents is the high prevalence of binge drinking... Underage drinkers consume, on average, 4 to 5 drinks per occasion about 5 times a month. By comparison, drinkers age 26 and older consume 2 to 3 drinks per occasion, about 9 times a month. Underage drinking is a leading contributor to death from injuries, which are the main cause of death for people under age 21. Each year, approximately 5,000 persons under the age of 21 die from causes related to underage drinking. These deaths include about 1,600 homicides and 300 suicides.

Alcohol also plays a significant role in risky sexual behavior and increases the risk of physical and sexual assault. Among college students under age 21, 50,000 experience alcohol-related date rape, and 43,000 are injured by another student who has been drinking."
http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1610

I would commend the NHS campaign against excessive/binge drinking. It's an important public health measure. But I also think that it is time for that old poster to be taken down, wherever it is still displayed, because right now, it seems to be generating controversy that detracts and distracts from its intended message, which has to do with alcohol abuse, and not the crime of rape, and because it actually contradicts the NHS position on not blaming rape victims for their own assaults.

2 Replies

@firefly,

Or maybe binge drinking is like rape, where certain people in 2014 are freaking out about a problem that has been getting better for decades, because the freak out promotes their agenda . This study does not show binge drinking to be getting worse, I in fact dont know that binge drinking is something that I should be more concerned about now then I was 30 years ago when I was in school.

http://responsibility.org/sites/default/files/images/images/College%20Drinking-Binge%20drinking-2012.gif

Increasingly it seems to me those trying to tell us what to do are fact averse.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Since the use of this poster was discontinued in 2007, but it is still being displayed in some locations, I really don't understand why the NHS just doesn't remove those remaining posters since many people are finding them offensive now. What's the point of leaving them up? Why continue to generate controversy that actually detracts from the poster's real intent regarding binge-drinking?

The NHS isn't some centralised authority issuing orders by diktat. It's localised, the reason it's still up is most likely down to inertia. Nobody's bothered taking them down, and there's always the possibility someone came across a load of shiny posters in a drawer and decided to put them up without even being aware of the controversy.

0 Replies

Another Brit campaign which is getting hammered by the feminists , and this one is current.

http://f429a6ff6c012f7ca05d-04c087848e99d4aab0cf8d1f9f82d07c.r16.cf1.rackcdn.com/34/48/28/34482807/ad_34482807_2423fdd63e6e4185_web.jpg

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@hawkeye10,

That's a US study - it doesn't reflect what's going on in Britain where binge drinking is a very serious problem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10825449/Britains-binge-drinking-levels-are-among-the-highest-in-the-world.html

Quote:

Experts said that a “ladette culture” had taken grip on Brtain’s teens, with drunkenness reaching epidemic levels among young women, and end-stage liver disease increasingly diagnosed among those in their 20s and 30s.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

So we should keep our mouths shut as a society and not warn young women that it is not safe to drink to the extreme of being incapacitated in unsafe locations as it tend to raise the risks of being sexual assaulted?

It raises her risks of being sexually assaulted only if she is in the vicinity of a sexual predator. It's the sexual predator who makes a location "unsafe". And often, that sexual predator is someone known to her. Most men are not going to rape a woman simply because she's intoxicated, available, and less able to resist, but a sexual predator will. Similarly, most people won't steal your car if it's left unlocked, but a thief will.

Offering common sense safety measures, about anything, is fine, but adolescents and young adults often don't takes these messages seriously enough, and alcohol use further impairs judgment regarding possible consequences. Excessive alcohol intake, for instance, can cause a person to pass out, and then vomit, causing pulmonary aspiration of the vomit into the lungs which can lead to pneumonia or directly to death.

Quote:

How exactly does that happen? It has to do with alcohol poisoning.

Just as alcohol affects your ability to operate a motor vehicle, walk a straight line and adequately pleasure a sexual partner, so can it affect other, more necessary functions if you imbibe enough of it. Yes, you can actually drink until your brain stem and gag reflex pass out.

Add to this the fact that alcohol is a poison, and your stomach really doesn't care to have it around for very long. When these two effects combine, it can readily lead to vomiting. If the vomit lodges in your throat, and you're A) Unconscious, and B) Suffering from debilitated brain function from alcohol poisoning it can very easily end in tragedy...

real alcohol poisoning is very serious. Here are some symptoms to help you identify the real thing:
•Mental confusion, stupor, coma, or person cannot be roused.
•Vomiting.
•Seizures.
•Slow breathing (fewer than eight breaths per minute).
•Irregular breathing (10 seconds or more between breaths).
•Hypothermia (low body temperature), bluish skin color, paleness.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2010/11/a_survivors_guide_to_death_by.php

Quote:

Risky Business

Excessive drinking can be hazardous to everyone's health! It can be particularly stressful if you are the sober one taking care of your drunk roommate, who is vomiting while you are trying to study for an exam.

Some people laugh at the behavior of others who are drunk. Some think it's even funnier when they pass out. But there is nothing funny about the aspiration of vomit leading to asphyxiation or the poisoning of the respiratory center in the brain, both of which can result in death.

Do you know about the dangers of alcohol poisoning? When should you seek professional help for a friend? Sadly enough, too many college students say they wish they would have sought medical treatment for a friend. Many end up feeling responsible for alcohol-related tragedies that could have easily been prevented.

Common myths about sobering up include drinking black coffee, taking a cold bath or shower, sleeping it off, or walking it off. But these are just myths, and they don't work. The only thing that reverses the effects of alcohol is time-something you may not have if you are suffering from alcohol poisoning. And many different factors affect the level of intoxication of an individual, so it's difficult to gauge exactly how much is too much. (link to BAC information)

What Happens to Your Body When You Get Alcohol Poisoning?

Alcohol depresses nerves that control involuntary actions such as breathing and the gag reflex (which prevents choking). A fatal dose of alcohol will eventually stop these functions.

It is common for someone who drank excessive alcohol to vomit since alcohol is an irritant to the stomach. There is then the danger of choking on vomit, which could cause death by asphyxiation in a person who is not conscious because of intoxication.

You should also know that a person's blood alcohol concentration (BAC) can continue to rise even while he or she is passed out. Even after a person stops drinking, alcohol in the stomach and intestine continues to enter the bloodstream and circulate throughout the body. It is dangerous to assume the person will be fine by sleeping it off.
read more here http://academics.lmu.edu/headsup/forstudents/alcoholpoisoning/

I don't think we need to warn young women, or young men, we need to better educate them regarding excessive alcohol use, and encourage responsible moderate drinking, for a whole host of reasons related to health and safety. The binge-drinking going on among teens and young adults is a cultural problem all by itself.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

That's a US study - it doesn't reflect what's going on in Britain where binge drinking is a very serious problem.

Probably correct, but we hear a lot about American youth binge drinking, especially on college campus.

Quote:

Teenage girls in Britain are the second biggest boozers in the developed world, a study reveals.

Only Denmark has more 15-year-old girls prone to drunkenness.

Some 44% of teen Brits quizzed had got sozzled at least twice - double the number in France, Holland or Italy. In America it was just 13%.

UK is equal sixth in the world for drunk teenage boys. Just under four in 10 15-year-olds said they had been drunk at least twice.

This is behind Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovenia.

But British boys drink far more than those in France (26%), Italy (19%) and America (15%).

The findings by the respected Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, have led experts to warn Britain faces a liver disease timebomb.

Eric Appleby, chief executive of Alcohol Concern, said: “Young people are bombarded with alcohol advertising telling them it’s normal to drink and it’s available everywhere at pocket money prices.

"To help them make healthier choices we need to stop irresponsible alcohol advertising.

He added: “The Government should introduce a minimum unit price to save lives and cut crime.”

The figures in the Oedema Health at a Glance report for 2013 are based on the latest worldwide survey done in 2010.

Most European countries sit way below Britain for female teen bingeing. In Italy, 14% of girls booze, in France, 17%, Portugal, 18%, and Greece, 19%. The OECD average is 28%

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/binge-drinking-british-girls-second-2866305#ixzz39GSke2wi
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

This problem has been on my radar for awhile. I have in my search of the web gotten few good answers as to the root of the problem, but I think that the riots of a couple of years ago is a clue. British youth seem to be very disenfranchised, far worse than American youth, they simply dont care about what is healthy for them personally or for the collective. They seem to have no stake in the outcome, they have already given up. The economic situation surely plays into this, so many young Brits are on the welfare program, have rarely/never worked and have no prospects for work. But giving up by the age of 15??

Something is very sick in British society, this drinking is a symptom of a larger problem , of this I am sure. The brits are spending a lot of time trying to convince the citizens that what they are doing is not healthy, but I highly doubt that this will be effective as the people seem to not care. We Americans have a bit of the same problem as we see with studies about menu listing of calorie and fat counts at fast food places...they rarely influence behaviour.

EDIT: has anyone looked at the nutrition lists for in & out and five guys? Holy Hell!. Yet business is booming.

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@iamsam82,

iamsam82 wrote:

Are the NHS right to advise women ways to avoid the likelihood of being victims of rape?

Tricky one.

It amazes me that this question is even asked.

Of course it is right.

There is nothing in this poster's message that can reasonably be construed as blaming the woman or excusing the rapist.

As izzy has pointed out, the NHS doesn't limit its public service messages on binge drinking to women so that should satisfy a number of the members which I, frankly, think are hung up on some issue of equity, but clearly the people in the UK who object to this particular poster are well aware of the gender equity of NHS PSMs.

What has transpired between 2007 and 2014 that has caused the British to suddenly draw the unreasonable interpretation of the poster's message? (I am assuming that there has not been an uproar with petitions signed by thousands of people since 2005 when the project was initiated, but I could be wrong).

The poster does not send a mixed message. No reasonably intelligent person reading this poster will mistakenly believe the NHS is blaming the victim. There may be manifestations of a blame the victim mentality in the UK which people, rightly, find objectionable, but this is not one, and people should save their outrage and time for truly offensive expressions, instead of fatuous campaigns against a PSM that actually does serve the public whether it was intended as a means to reduce binge-drinking or advising women on ways to avoid being raped.

As someone suggested, if the NHS warned women about walking alone at night on unlit streets would that be interpreted as blaming the victim?

Rape is a horrible crime for which there is no excuse, not a woman's appearance, not her manner and not her state of sobriety, however it does happen and until it does not, it is foolish not to take reasonable steps to minimize the risk. Not drinking in public to the point of insensibility is not an unreasonable step to take.

Getting totally pissed in public is illegal in most places in the US and I would be surprised if this isn't the case as well in the UK. It's a law that isn't usually enforced unless the drunk is causing a problem, but no one, not man or woman, has a right to get stinking drunk in public. It's not an invitation by a woman to be raped, but as the poster suggests it can lead to being raped. Taking that risk is not an expression of feminine equality or strength it's stupid.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Getting totally pissed in public is illegal in most places in the US and I would be surprised if this isn't the case as well in the UK.

It's illegal to be drunk and disorderly, not just drunk.

2 Replies

Public drunkenness is illegal in most, of not all, jurisdictions in the United States. The police in the emergency rooms in which i worked used that as an excuse to keep drunks who were brought in in restraints while the medical staff applied the principles of triage to the patients coming in, and then treated the truly emergency cases of those who were not just drunk. Dram shop laws in the United States also make it illegal to serve alcohol to anyone who appears to be drunk. It is not rigorously enforced, but it has its uses, since a bartender and the bar owner can be held legally liable if they serve someone who then goes out and causes property damage, injury or death while in a drunken condition.

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@izzythepush,

In the U.S. a person can be charged with being publicly intoxicated alone. Drunk and disorderly would count as a separate charge.

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@iamsam82,

I think they are more ducative than Offensive......

1 Reply

@brightlikeme,

It provides a statistic. I think the poster conveys a message of what makes women more vulnerable to sexual attack. Notice...it says drinking rather than getting plastered (pissed). I think it reminds women that some of the responsibility of self-protection lies with having to curtail freedom...in this case drinking. The other 2/3 ...well, beware of dressing in a provocative manner, walking alone at night, wearing red lipstick...whatever. Fact remains that even if the fact angers us and it is unfair, it's still a fact.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Quote:

I think the poster conveys a message of what makes women more vulnerable to sexual attack. Notice...it says drinking rather than getting plastered (pissed). I think it reminds women that some of the responsibility of self-protection lies with having to curtail freedom.

You mean like curtailing the freedom to wear thousands of dollars of jewelry in a bad part of your city?

2 Replies

@BillRM,

So what you're saying is that enhancing my femininity is an act of provocation? ...an invitation for trouble?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
The same sort of problem is creeping up in the medical profession today, in the USA. Physicians, who are internists/primary care physicians, are being encouraged to ask their patients ( at all levels of society ), during the medical interview, whether they own guns.

The question was suggested to be ask to people with children in their households not everyone and with the idea if the answer is yes to give them advice of how to keep firearms safe in households with both children and guns.

Would you have a problem with a poster on the wall of pediatrician offices dealing with the important of taking safety precautions and what they happen to be if there are firearms in the home?

You of course know that many MDs today, carry guns, and they keep them holstered, even while evaluating a patient. Isn' this dangerous to the well-being of the patient? The next time you visit a Doc, be sure to ask her/him if she's/he's carrying a gun.

0 Replies

Is this public awareness poster from the NHS offensive to women?

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