Bush Adm. met with rapture Christians re Israel action

BBB

That's a wonderful piece of journalism. Thank you very kindly for finding and posting it.

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It proves to me that religious zelots are more dangerous to the freedoms of the US citizens than commies or nazis.

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I agree rabel22. Here's a piece of The Apostolic Congress web site:

http://www.apostoliccongress.com/about.html

Quote:

In 1981, early in the Reagan Administration, Brother Stan Wachtstetter was able to open the door for Apostolic Christians into the White House. Brother Stan was a Liaison for Apostolic Pastors for several years, and then he took a sabbatical from the political scene and began to Pastor. Brother Wachtstetter will always remain a close political advisor to our Executive Board.
Pastor Robert G. Upton is currently the Executive Director for The Apostolic Congress. Pastor Upton has always had a keen interest in the world of politics, but it was not until he attended a White House briefing in June 2000 that he realized his vision of touching world leaders with prayer for our nation.

Today, as a direct result of Pastor Upton and his team, Christians are affecting policy in Washington, and bringing about real change in America.

Apostolic Congress Purpose Statement
The Apostolic Congress is a Spirit-filled, purpose driven movement representing, by collective voice, the heartbeat of the Apostolic Community on a national front in a viable and systematic manner. The Apostolic Congress provides a consciousness to the political structure of our nation, by meetings, dialogues and on-going communication. The Apostolic Congress shall lift up a spiritual shield of protection for our Nation and Leaders through persistent prayer.

Apostolic Congress Mission
The Apostolic Congress informs Christians in America about issues such as Abortion and family values. The Apostolic Congress is very much a Pro-Life and Pro-Family organization.

We also keep Americas Christian leaders informed about their role with the current Administration through regular White House briefings. The Apostolic Congress also SUPPORTS the Sovereign nation of Israel. We work very close with the Embassy of Israel in Washington DC. In Addition, we also have a close working relationship with many organizations in Washington. Such as The Policy Institute for Religion & State, The Christian Coalition, as well as many other Pro-Life and Pro-Family groups.

Looks like they could use a good professional writer for their web site.

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http://www.apostoliccongress.com/pastor.html

Check out the "Did You Know" Box. This is sad but true.

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http://www.apostoliccongress.com/fsguestbook.html

Here's an interesting entry on their guestbook:

Quote:

Name: David
Email:
HomePage:
Where are
you from: USA
Comments: Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: I saw the article in Village Voice at http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0420/perlstein.php. I am not expert at all on Christian theology or your organization (the Apostolic Congress), but as an Orthodox Jew I consider myself expert on authentic traditional Jewish theology. I wanted to draw your attention to a number of websites that your organization may not be familiar with. These websites describe the authentic unadulterated view of the Jewish religion towards Zionism, which is an abomination, a godless and idolatrous, man-made aberration. I believe you would benefit greatly from studying this information because it is urgent for the world to know that Judaism and Zionism are not synonymous. The websites are: www.jewsagainstzionism.com, www.nkusa.org, www.jewsnotzionists.org.
May 18, 2004 23:54:02 (GMT Time)

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Quote:

It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see.

Let's see the full email rather than the VV's excerpts and interpretations.

Quote:

In one letter home obtained by the Voice

Let's see that full letter instead of bits and pieces of it.

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The headline says it all. I wonder what the writer's definition of 'Rapture Christian' is? He is surely not one of those bigoted, prejudiced left wingnuts who believes anyone who adheres to the Christian faith is a disciple of Satan?

But of course he is absolutely correct. I have no doubt that the entire Bush administration are conducting midnight cult rituals including virgin sacrifice and eating live chickens.

And any of you who believe any of this garbage, I have some nice swampland to sell you.

I would love to go back into the archives and see how many of the A2K anti-Christian people who bash GWB for his Christian faith even raised an eyebrow when Bill Clinton invited a plethora of Christian ministers, including Billy Graham, to the White House for consultation and prayer?

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foxfyre

Would you please come down from your eagle's perch from where all christianity looks divine and perfect. Or get some glasses.

Your first paragraph is just silly. Stop being silly. It describes no one here, and likely no one on earth.

There are many very different versions of Christianity. Some, for example in Africa, you wouldn't possibly even recognize as part of the family, as they have included aspects of previous faith elements as well such as ancestor worship.

There are versions in America which hold the Pope to be the anti-Christ.

You may (or may not, I don't know) hold that the version of which you are a member represents the one true faith, but such a simplistic and exclusionary notion has not a whole lot of intellectual or emotional maturity behind it. It's a poverty of faith.

If you are going to argue that such versions of Christianity exist in the US such as this piece portrays, then you are simply ill-informed.

If you are going to argue that this piece misrepresents such versions, then you show some evidence which is more compelling than what is quoted above, or available on many websites easily accessible.

If you are going to argue that representatives of these versions have to access to the White House, then you'll have to provide evidence contradicting the evidence of this piece.

If you are going to argue that Bush himself holds to a different version, then that's fine. But the point is whether or not these people are consequential in the development of internal and external policy. If you say they are inconsequential, then you have an evidentiary battle.

If you are going to argue, and you do, that Bush's Christianity and Clinton's Christianity are both Christian, therefore exactly the same, you've got another evidentiary battle.

If you are going to argue that any version of Christianity or any religious belief is benign in a democratic leader, then you are simply being a fool.

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There's only one religion in the world that people can bash and trash with impunity, and that's Christianity. "Rapture Christians, " "Fundies," "religious zealots," all are Christians and all are fair game for attack. Anyone who lives a strictly religious life is an object of derision if they are of the Christian religion. But replace "Christian" with "Muslim" and everything becomes all right. Maybe some people need to reexamine their prejudices.

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Would anyone agree that Christianity today is less violent and disruptive than Islam today?

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I dislike the belief systems of fundamentalist, my-way-or-the-highway, true believers of every stripe. And that includes "rapture Christians", who apparently believe that at any given moment they will be swept up into heaven while the rest of us burn in hell down here.

And the Israeli Jews, who they support now, had better convert en masse to Christianity to make this all happen. It's too much...

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I think anyone who doesn't adhere to fundamentalist rapture Christian beliefs has Satan's social security number tattoed on his/her butt. At the very least you are all the spawn of Mao Tse Tung, Lenin, Stalin, Idi Amin, and all the other great athiests who have wrecked havoc on the world. Ridiculous?

Well, that makes about as much sense as those of you who think anybody espousing any kind of faith in God or, God forbid!, any kind of Christian belief is the epitome of the very worst that Christianity can produce.

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Tarantulas

Foolish post. Uncareful thinking. Not one sentence of it is true or coherent.

Quote:

There's only one religion in the world that people can bash and trash with impunity, and that's Christianity.

Please tell me what the situation is in India, in Burma, in Melanesia, among the Haida Gwai. What is criticized above are versions of Christianity, not Christianity, and that is specified. And if you are looking for some exemption for all forms of christianity or all forms of faith from criticism...tough luck, you don't get it.

Quote:

"Rapture Christians, " "Fundies," "religious zealots," all are Christians and all are fair game for attack.

Of course they are fair game for criticism. Why shouldn't they be? Where they involve themselves in the polity, they immediately lay themselves open for exactly the same study and criticism as any political group...the fact they have a faith is irrelevant.

Quote:

Anyone who lives a strictly religious life is an object of derision if they are of the Christian religion.

That's just false, and it is clearly false to anyone who reads or studies the issues for more than two minutes. How many 'attacks' on Hutterites do you see here? Their traditionalist communities live far more strictly religious lives than the folks noted in the piece above.

Quote:

But replace "Christian" with "Muslim" and everything becomes all right. Maybe some people need to reexamine their prejudices.

That last sentence epitomizes what you continually get wrong. And it is really stupid of you to keep getting it wrong. Religious 'zealots' or zealots of any stripe are frequently targetted here, and elsewhere. But Christian zealots get no pass, nor should they. The opposite is the case...they should be addressed more criticially because they are involved in our polity and whirling dervishes are not.

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McGentrix wrote:

Would anyone agree that Christianity today is less violent and disruptive than Islam today?

You set this question up to produce a generalization. That's not terribly helpful, and may worse in consequence. If you asked, "Are more modern acts of violence perpetrated by radical Islamists than radical Christians?" the answer would surely be yes. If you asked whether that "has always been so?" the answer would be no. If you asked "Are Christian nations or Muslim nations more disruptive?" the answer would not be clear.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I think anyone who doesn't adhere to fundamentalist rapture Christian beliefs has Satan's social security number tattoed on his/her butt. At the very least you are all the spawn of Mao Tse Tung, Lenin, Stalin, Idi Amin, and all the other great athiests who have wrecked havoc on the world. Ridiculous?

That makes about as much sense as those of you who think anybody espousing any kind of faith in God or, God forbid!, any kind of Christian belief is the epitome of the very worst that Christianity can produce.

Fox

What exactly are you talking about? Nobody here has made a claim such as your second paragraph implies.

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Blatham writes:

Quote:

Religious 'zealots' or zealots of any stripe are frequently targetted here, and elsewhere. But Christian zealots get no pass, nor should they

.

I don't have time to do it, but I would guess a cursory review of the active threads in the A2K political and spirituality/religion forums would find numerous scathing, as well as insulting, hurtful, and insensitive, remarks directed at Christianity and/or Christians and/or George Bush because he is perceived as being Christian.

By comparison I think that same cursory review would find conservatives slamming Islamic fundamentalism that adovcates terrorism and murder, but any criticism of Islam from the left will generally be infrequent or at least much milder and will often be mentioned in conjunction with the 'equal' evils of Christianity and/or the greater evils of the current administration. . .

Or the left will point out that Islamic fundamentalism does not represent the rank and file Moslem. They usually cannot bring themselves to make the same observation about Christianity however.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I think anyone who doesn't adhere to fundamentalist rapture Christian beliefs has Satan's social security number tattoed on his/her butt.

ROFLMAO

You really don't believe that do you Foxfyre? That's got to be one of the funniest quotes I think I've ever seen on A2K to date. Maybe that's why me and my friends have this on our butts ~ 666-66-6666 :wink:

Fundamentalists of any religion are to be feared. Ever notice that right smack in the middle of the word fundamentalist is the word mental I don't think thats a coincidence.

More people have been killed in the name of religion then for any other reason.

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blatham writes:

Quote:

What exactly are you talking about? Nobody here has made a claim such as your second paragraph implies

Look how the writer of the piece that is the thesis of this thread looks at it. And how it is supported by others from the 'left' who see something so terribly sinister in the fact that the president is a professed Christian and relate that to the most extreme examples of fundamentalist Christianity. (Which is absolutely laughable to anybody who knows anything about Methodist doctrine and/or practice.)

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You have to read my whole post Doglover to get the gist of it. It sorta goes along with my (spirituality & religion forum) rants against 'proof texting' that is so popular with some.

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Bush Adm. met with rapture Christians re Israel action

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