Newsweek: "Roots of Torture Go to the Top"

Very thorough piece. Thank you.

What I can't understand is how thousands of photos, for example, are explained away by the neocons as "isolated incidents".

Aside from the evidence from Iraq, now there's evidence of serious abuse happening at Guantanamo:

US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp

I'm not saying that all or the majority of US soldiers are bad apples, but now that atrocities like in Iraq, Cuba and Afghanistan are coming to light, it seems like a behavioural pattern that the US army has instilled into its serving men and women; at least a heck of a lot of them.

Aris

Welcome to a2k. Lovely to have another voice from the Mediterranean here.

Increasingly, it does appear to be a systemic problem.

atrocities?

Mass murder is an atrocity. Brutal rape and physical torture of family members are atrocities. Feeding prisoners into wood chippers is an atrocity. Drilling holes in people with a hand drill is an atrocity. Slowly lowering a prisoner into a vat of acid is an atrocity. Severing someones head off is an atrocity.

Making someone stand around naked is NOT an atrocity. Making someone kneel for extended periods of time (even naked) is NOT an atrocity. Making someone listen to noise is NOT an atrocity.

As far as "isolated incidents" go, If I were to take 1000 pictures of you beating your dog once, it does not mean that your extended family also beats their dogs, and it doesn't mean that your father told you to do it and it doesn't mean you beat your dof all the time. It was a record of an isolated incident.

Thanx blatham. Actually, I joined this forum in January but never started getting actively involved until today

Yes, it does seem like a systemic problem, and what really annoys me is that people are dying down there as we speak, the whole thing is a damn mess, and the only thing certain neocons and senators could say is how they are more bugged over the uproar than the uproar itself. It seems that to them, the image of the US is more important than the actual abuse.

Surely the strongest possible justification for impeachment? Yet nothing happens.

On the other hand, the former President's comparatively minor extra-marital indiscretians had the opposition spending millions in taxpayers' dollars and screaming for his head and every other extremity.

Weird?

Aris, blatham, greenumbrella:

It appears the Abu Ghraib torture rituals were not isolated incidents, but well thought of techniques that originated in the mind of none other than Donald Rumsfeld.

According to a US military report leaked by the Red Cross, as many as 70% to 90% of detainees at Abu Ghraib were wrongly imprisoned, as was the case of the fare paying passenger in a taxicab that the US military decided had been stolen, so both the driver and the passenger were abducted and sent to Abu Ghraib.

Subjecting devout Muslims to sexual humiliation appears to be one technique Rumsfeld signed off on and had no problem with using at Abu Ghraib.

The truly unfortuante thing in all of this is, the USA has lost the moral high ground in the eyes of not only the Arab world, but the rest of the world as well, including the majority of Americans.

I wonder what the heck has to happen over there for the US to pull out. Probably a "regime change" in the US itself

Rummie's hypocrisy is amazing though, isn't it?

"Did you know about these abuses prior to CBS airing the photos?"

(waffling) "Mmmm, don't think so, Dick, you remember hearing anything? You neither? Nope, I had no idea"

Aris:

If the "Dick" you refer to is Cheney, then considering that he is after all, the de facto President, I do not believe he had no knowledge of what was coming down at Abu Ghraib.

No no, it wasn't Cheney. Rummie was leaning over to his right and speaking to a general or something like that, I don't know who.

Dammit!! Buckets of rain just started coming down and I have to ride home. Cutting this short and going home before I have to row my bike back home, will continue later guys.

The evidence pointing to Rummy the Dummy just keeps flowing out of various and respected media outlets.

Yet, Bush stands by his man. It's bizarre!

What hath Bush wrought? Exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of self-righteous reactionary religious fanatics.

What hath Bush wrought? Exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of self-righteous reactionary religious fanatics.

I agree coluber2001.

Just heard a little clip from the BBC about why the Arabs in particular and the World as a whole is not buying Rummy and Bush's "apologies". It was interesting to say the least and very informative. I figured a manipulator such as the Bush and Rump would have done much better. I think it is another indicator in the large untold degree both of them had in this hold sordid affair.

You could probably find it on NPR, it would be the last ten minutes of their noon BBC report.

There is an excellent article on the subject in the New Yorker. It is much to long to cut and paste.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact

!
"well thought of techniques that originated in the mind of none other than Donald Rumsfeld."

Not quite. Rummy signed off on this shite but the CIA brainiacs came up with the detailed treatments.

Signatories of the Geneva Convention could assemble and hold a hearing and foreward an indictement of BushCo but they won't.

The gun now smokes:



'the Vietnam' indeed........................