They are at it again

1. Who is saying its okay?

2. Are you trying to suggest that Iraqi atrocities justify American abuses?

American prisoner beheaded tonight

No I ma trying to say that many people seem to forget that what the Iraqi combatants and civilians have done to our people is pretty bad and no one appears to really condemn them for it. After all, we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

There is a huge double standard and I wish that everyone would just see it for what it is. A group of people let their emotions get out of hand and did some bad things to people that were in their charge. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

As for the Iraqi's that did this to our people, they should be punished also.

If American troops weren't in Iraq towns and cities, they wouldn't be a target for attacks would they?

There's a simple solution.

And Steve, what would you have us do now that we are there, just leave? Yeah that's the ticket, leave the country in turmoil and pull out all of our troops. How long do you think it would take before there was another dictator in office using it for his or her (yeah right) personal gain. How do you think Saddam got all of that money that he escaped with?

The 'solution' implied by Steve would leave 25 million Iraqis vulnerable to the worst of terroist strongmen. It is mandatory for practical and humanitarian reasons to leave them capable of fending for themselves.

As for Saints' comment, I will just stay on point:

There is no excuse for Saddam's treatment of his own people.

There is no excuse for the behavior of those U.S. military guards at Abu Ghaid.

There is no excuse for liberal left's excessive lack of outrage at the atrocities committed by the terrorists and Saddam's regime and the corresponding excessive contempt, disrespect, and/or hate directed at the current U.S. administration.

There's something very out of whack about that.

That is my point foxfyre, thanks for the help.

Well firstly I thought Saddam was in American custody, but if he's now free with the loot...

What would I do?

I would tell Bush and Rumsfeld that unless they get their act together and start treating Iraq like a liberated country instead of newly conquered territory to be exploited for its oil wealth, then British troops are pulling out along with the Spanish Hondurans Dominican Republic Poland Thailand Bulgarians etc. etc.

We Brits invented Iraq. The three eastern provinces of the Ottoman empire were put together around oil. We actually know that country. But of course Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Bolton Freith and the Leo Cons and Likudniks had a better plan. INVASION LITE. Guaranteed to go down badly.

Without the insurgency, the US would be just about ready to leave, a government would have been formed, elections would have been planned, power, water and sewage projects would have been completed, Iraqi oil would be selling and supplying the country with some income and independance.

The only ones keeping the US in Iraq are the ones who want the US to leave.

That might well be true McG but if you think about it logically, it would seem there is enough common ground for an agreement.

e.g. stop killing us whilst we prepare to go !

Trouble is there was and is no intention of leaving. The insurgency justifies the American presence. And in the eyes of the Iraqis the American presence justifies the insurgency. Its a circular argument.

That's BS.

The US government has ZERO intentions of remaining in charge of Iraq. We can not leave Iraq in the hands of whoever has the most guns. That's just not how the game is played now. When the US is done, a representative government will exist that will represent ALL of Iraq and not just the sect that can kill the most people.

If the US had intentions of ruling Iraq, I assure you we would be handling the situation in an entirely different way.

Saints, is it AMERICAN job to moralize about Iraqi idiots??
Is it AMERICAN duty to be ashamed about crimes and torture made by Iraqis??

I don't know, I am not American. I know that in any normal country people would be first and mainly concerned about their image and their behaviour.

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"Without the insurgency, the US would be just about ready to leave..."

Wrong!

The USA has plans to establish 14 Military bases in Iraq. The USA has plans to privatize business and plant Multi-Corps in Iraq. The USA is building the largest Embassy on the planet in Iraq. The USA never had an exit plan.

Next on the list: Syria and Iran.

There is a solution to the fiasco and the Iraqis have provided it.
Will the USA Govt. sign on the the solution?

Pistoff, you have proof of this other than your alien decoder ring told you so?

nobody knows real truth for sure, but considering fact that 99% of world population would sign pistoff's post immidiately I suppose there is slightly bigger chance that your post was dictated by alien decoder ring.

Of course, I also don't have written proof that 99% of world population would sign pistoff's post, so maybe that's also aliens speaking through me

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The Iraqis are ready for actual Sovereignty. No Civil War!

Iraq's Shiites, Sunnis Form Anti-Occupation Body

Iraq's Shiites, Sunnis Form Anti-Occupation Body
Additional Reporting By Samir Haddad, IOL Correspondent

BAGHDAD, May 8 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - Iraq's Sunnis and Shiites formed Saturday, May 8, a pan-religious body to stream efforts for ending the occupation.

The United Iraqi Scholars Group -- which appointed a 16-strong leadership panel -- has vowed to boycott any political group set up by the United States and called for a stronger army than the small force envisioned by the US-led occupation authority, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).

After a five-hour conference, attended by 500 Iraqis from across the political spectrum, the group said its agenda was based on "legitimate resistance to end the occupation" and keeping Iraq united.

It deemed all laws passed or to be enacted under the yoke of occupation "illegal" and demanded an end of occupation as soon as possible.

The new body, grouping Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, pressed for sidelining the U.S.-appointed Governing Council and called for a meeting with U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi.

(more)

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-05/08/article08.shtml

*Al Sistani has signed on to this. The Occupation can now be ended and US Forces can leave.

There is no such thing as 'excessive lack'.

This one malaprop tells me all I need to know about your deductive capacities.

You have no special tool that enables you to calculate the levels of outrage at anything.

You're just another miserable conservative put off by those of us here who oppose the war, and who see these circumstances as the law of unintended consequences exerting itself in spades.

FWIW, I am outraged at the atrocities committed on both sides, as I would say all of us -- left, right, center -- are.

It didn't have to be this way.

Lord, spare me from the spelling police and grammar police who use both as comprehensive rebuttal. (Not to mention those who deduce American base installation plans from Islamonline.)

What a pathetic standard this truism establishes: The American military -- they're not as bad as al-Qaeda.