Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

@Buttermilk,

Not surprised re your character.

Fortunately for me, I'm the same person in private as I am in public. It reveals more about you than it would about me.

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Quote:

OmSig said: blacks have been dis-proportionately inflicting bloody crimes of violence upon whites and therefore, the blacks shud pay reparations to the whites and taxes on the blacks shud be raised accordingly ASAP. How 's that?

Right mate, you'd think blacks would be grateful to whites for rescuing them from the jungles and giving them free passage on ships to start a new life in Christian America with a steady job on the plantations, free food, housing and medical care, and free English language lessons thrown in.. Smile

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

I just finished reading Ta-Nehisi Coates's article in The Atlantic. He makes a convincing case for the argument that blacks have been discriminated against in the US. I would think, however, that that's fairly noncontroversial. I suppose if someone were uncertain that blacks have faced discrimination in this country, reading Coates's article would provide some useful information. But Coates doesn't make the leap from the premise that blacks have suffered discrimination to the conclusion that blacks are entitled to reparations. It's not that Coates fails to make the argument that reparations are justified, it's that he doesn't even realize he needs to make that argument. Yet there's quite a gap between acknowledging past (and present) discrimination and claiming that reparations are the only way to remedy that discrimination.

Every ethnic group that has immigrated to this country in large numbers has faced fairly prolonged and systematic discrimination. The early English and Dutch Religious dissenters quickly learned to discriminate against each other on a sectarian basis. The subsequent waves of German, Scotch Irish, Chinese, Irish, Polish, German & Ashkenazi Jews, Italians, and currently Central Americans, all faced their own often hostile discrimination for the first two or three generations after their arrival. No reparations or compensation was ever proposed for any of them.

No other country in the world has such a record of success in assimilating hordes of immigrants ,and with them creating a still evolving common culture, as does the United States. It's a harsh process - (most of us can recall the various degrading epithets that were used to describe each of the listed groups) - that first rewards those with the most initiative and drive. Later their example draws others along. The process has generally taken from two to three generations after which economic success and growing self-respect earned each group the (usually grudging) respect of others. After that the issues just faded away. I believe that is the natural order of such things, based on my experience of human nature. I know of no successful systems for improving it. Indeed compulsory attempts to do so usually backfire, breeding more resentment on the part of those being coerced to accept something they don't like, and creating an undeserved sense of entitlement among those being "protected".

One can argue the matter, but my opinion is that the relative economic freedom and opportunity in the United States was the principle factor in our unique success in this area.

Slaves are another matter. I would support the payment of reparations by any surviving slave owners to any remaining former slaves, but I would not arbitrarily impose such things on their descendants. Unfortunately for us all a quasi legal/cultural system of segregation stopped the clock on this natural process for them for nearly a century. Now the clock has started again and it is time for the self-appointed reformers of us all to get out of the way. A growing class of the most fortunate, energetic and persistent Blacks is achieving economic success just as did their predecessors among the Irish, Poles and Italians of this country. That success will inspire others to the same achievements. It is all happening now.

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@georgeob1,

I take it that is the " pay your dues" argument, if you all want Americas riches then you need to take a little hazing first.

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@georgeob1,

It's difficult for me to understand what useful purpose reparations would serve.

Very few, if any, people who suffered the direct damages of slavery are still alive and while I an argument can be made that all African-Americans have suffered indirect damage as a result of institutionalized slavery, clearly the degree of damage varies greatly and would be impossible to calculate. Would the answer then be a single amount paid to each African-American?

What exactly is an African-American and how would someone verify that they meet whatever criteria that is established? The cost of administering such a program might possibly exceed the total amount of reparations paid.

I'm sure that there are quite a few people who, after the payment of reparations, would then expect African-Americans to just shut the hell up about discrimination. I doubt this would sit well with a lot of people (not just African-Americans), and rightly so.

If there was some possibility that the payment of reparations would result in our once and for all putting the shame of institutionalized slavery behind us, it might be attractive, but I seriously doubt that would happen. No one time event is going to accomplish this.

From a fundamental perspective, the argument that reparations (as they would likely be made) are not just would be many with some more compelling than others. "No one in my family ever owned slaves" "My ancestors didn't come to this country until after slavery was abolished. Why should I have to contribute to reparations?" "My great-grandfather died while serving in the Union army, why should I be forced to contribute?" Incompletely satisfying one group's sense of justice while arousing anger for injustice in other groups can't possibly be helpful.

I imagine that a countering argument might be that if you enjoy the benefits of being an American citizen it's only right that you assume its historical debts, but couldn't this same argument be made to African-Americans? And what of Americans of ethic backgrounds that at some time in our history experienced harsh discrimination? Chinese immigrants were hardly welcomed to America with open arms and in certain cases (railroad workers) were beset with conditions approaching those of slavery. Even if they didn't demand reparations themselves, they could make a comparably legitimate argument that they should be exempt from contributing.

For whatever good reparations might do (and I question that they would do much good at all) they could easily result in a lot of division and discord.

Frankly, it's not as if this is a burning issue for the majority of African-Americans in this country, nor is it the case that substantial efforts have not been made to counter the effect of the discrimination they have experienced and suffered from. I suspect that most would prefer an end, once and for all, to existing discrimination rather than a paycheck for sins hundreds of years old.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Frankly, it's not as if this is a burning issue for the majority of African-Americans in this country, nor is it the case that substantial efforts have not been made to counter the effect of the discrimination they have experienced and suffered from. I suspect that most would prefer an end, once and for all, to existing discrimination rather than a paycheck for sins hundreds of years old.

The blacks r not going to get anything,
but whether thay got the money or not,
near 1OO% of them will vote Democrat, no matter what!

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

near 1OO% of them will vote Democrat, no matter what!

Of course they will as it is in their best interest to do so as in fact it is in the best interest of 99 percents of the population.

Only those who benefit by having government welfare for millionaires and billionaires should by logic be voting for Republicans.

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As soon as they pay back ALL the welfare they've received...with interest, then we'll talk.

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@giujohn,

Do whites have to pay theirs back too?

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@BillRM,

No. Degenerating into The Borg
will be delayed by voting against authoritarian-collectivism,
i.e., by voting against the Democrats and in favor of personal liberty and Individualism.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Do whites have to pay theirs back too?

To get reparations for black felonies, yes.

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@Lash,

If whites are asking for reparations...

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

by voting against the Democrats and in favor of personal liberty and Individualism

You mean like telling women that they must carry a fetus to term no matter what?

Or that we should locked up millions for using pot?

Seem not a great deal of freedoms when it come to the Republic party except your right to die if you can not afford medical care.

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@Buttermilk,

Quote:

[Africa is a continent with different countries, why do people talk of Africa as if its a country on its own? Slavery was not widely practiced in Africa Anyway slavery has existed but the type of slavery was different depending on the ruler. Genghis Khan used slaves as spoils of war and as disposable targets in battle. The England descendants used African slaves as replacement for indentured servants then used systematic racism to subdue multi-generations of that culture.....

Me thinkst you are either uninformed as to the history of african slavery, or you are purposely obfuscating the facts. In any case you are WRONG.

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People who claim that other ethnic groups have overcome discrimination, to become successes, in general, so why haven't blacks, have no empathy, no concept of the struggles of the black Americans. Prized for the strength in their back muscles, systematically taught that they are intellectually about par with the mule, disallowed education, beaten and/or lynched at the whim of the "masters" when they were slaves and as much of the same as they could manage during reconstruction, into the mid 20th Century - No other ethic groups were treated like this, in this country. And, just when it seemed we were getting ahead of the situation, the country now appears to be regressing. I don't have an answer to the reparations question, but racism still dogs us and will for some time to come.

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@edgarblythe,

Hear, hear.

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@edgarblythe,

Right on, young man.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

People who claim that other ethnic groups have overcome discrimination, to become successes, in general, so why haven't blacks, have no empathy, no concept of the struggles of the black Americans. Prized for the strength in their back muscles, systematically taught that they are intellectually about par with the mule, disallowed education, beaten and/or lynched at the whim of the "masters" when they were slaves and as much of the same as they could manage during reconstruction, into the mid 20th Century - No other ethic groups were treated like this, in this country. And, just when it seemed we were getting ahead of the situation, the country now appears to be regressing. I don't have an answer to the reparations question, but racism still dogs us and will for some time to come.

I agree. That's why I wrote that unfortunately we stopped the clock on them for almost a century.However, that doesn't change the only process of assimilation. known to work effectively. The fact is that it has already begun and the independent economic initiatives of the black population increasingly inhabiting the middle class and beyond have done far more to improve the situation than all of the affirmative action programs that are so touted by the self-appointed professional leaders of the permanent black plantation have ever done or will do.

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While I dont disagree with the bulk edgarblythes post, the only thing I want to hear from blacks today is,"you're welcome". I believe they should thank the United States of America for ABOLISHING slavery.
I have always said that if modern blacks cannot get past the fact that they are black then it's hard to expect others to do so.
Blacks today are DESCENDANTS of slaves. The question is: how long should we address the issue of slavery as if it were a recent event with the possibility of re-occuring today? How long should we allow these DESCENDANTS be viewed as VICTIMS of slavery.
And please...save your hue and cry of racism regarding this post.

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@giujohn,

Jim Crow is post slavery. Into about mid 20th Century. George is correct that more blacks than ever before are successful, but affirmative action is still needed, even if the hated liberals are the ones pushing it.

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Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

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