Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.
The problem with this myth is that it uses the same word -- discrimination -- to describe two very different things. Job discrimination is grounded in prejudice and exclusion, whereas affirmative action is an effort to overcome prejudicial treatment through inclusion. The most effective way to cure society of exclusionary practices is to make special efforts at inclusion, which is exactly what affirmative action does. The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements. For a healthy person, high doses of vitamin supplements may be unnecessary or even harmful, but for a person whose system is out of balance, supplements are an efficient way to restore the body's balance.

Myth 8: Affirmative action tends to undermine the self-esteem of women and racial minorities.
Although affirmative action may have this effect in some cases (Heilman, Simon, & Repper, 1987; Steele, 1990), interview studies and public opinion surveys suggest that such reactions are rare (Taylor, 1994). For instance, a 1995 Gallup poll asked employed Blacks and employed White women whether they had ever felt others questioned their abilities because of affirmative action (Roper Center for Public Opinion, 1995c). Nearly 90% of respondents said no (which is understandable -- after all, White men, who have traditionally benefited from preferential hiring, do not feel hampered by self-doubt or a loss in self-esteem). Indeed, in many cases affirmative action may actually raise the self-esteem of women and minorities by providing them with employment and opportunities for advancement. There is also evidence that affirmative action policies increase job satisfaction and organizational commitment among beneficiaries (Graves & Powell, 1994).

See:http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Today, women are benefiting from affirmative action more than people of color. According to past research, six million women—who were mostly white—got their jobs through affirmative action.
One other study shows that women have made the most gains in employment in the federal government. Federal jobs are subject to “federal affirmative-action requirements”, Time says which in turn shows the services affirmative action provides for women.
Employment of females in federal companies rose 15.2 percent, but only 2.2 percent in other fields.
- See more at: http://madamenoire.com/282653/studies-show-affirmative-action-helps-white-women-more-than-others/#sthash.9riGhxKi.dpuf

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

Europeans (our homies) treated them as savagely. I've been researching a project set in that time - and Native Americans have nothing on us in the savagery realm.

They match us or at least the more war like tribes did and in some cases more then match us in the killings of innocents and some of the tribes whole cultures revolved around raiding and you could not live near them in peace until their whole culture had been knock down and rebuilt.

Would be like trying to live with vikings next door to you.

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@Lash,

They been at war with each other since they arrived themselves and long lasting treaties was not common with them either.

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@Buttermilk,

LOL so let me see for example my two mixed race step daughters with a college professor father in the home and a mother that was a very high level state bureaucrat with a Phd should get move ahead of the line and in front of poor whites due to their DNA?

Sorry you can give breaks base on such factors as the students families being poor, or educated in a poor school districts and so on that would cover all students that should be cover no matter what their skin color or DNA happen to be without having middle class or upper middle class black children being given advance standing when there is zero reason that they should not be able to complete with anyone in the nation on equal footings.

To say nothing that in only giving breaks and help to those who need it blind to skin color would not increase racial tensions even when a large percent of the help ended up being given to those with black skins.

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@BillRM,

Your family has nothing to do with what the statistics demonstrate as you've done in the Sterling thread. As I have proven affirmative action benefits whites more than minorities as I have shown two different links. I know its hard to argue against that.

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If it's the same article, I read it a few days ago and agreed with the second half as obvious. I should reread.

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"Research finds that 86% of African-Americans at selective colleges and universities are middle or upper-middle class. (The whites are marginally wealthier). While race-based affirmative action roughly triples the proportion of African-American and Latino students in selective colleges compared to their likely representation based on grades and test scores, research finds that low-income and working-class students are represented at roughly the same rate as they would be were grades and test scores the basis for admission. Even with strong race-based affirmative-action programs in place, 74% of students at the most selective colleges come from the richest quarter of the population, and just 10% from the bottom economic half. If we want to address class inequality, we should not rely on race as an imperfect proxy for economic status."

The article is headlined with white women making most gains through affirmative action, and there are other eye-opening facts as well.

http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/three-myths-about-affirmative-action/32084

Seemingly the bottom line with Ms Fisher's case: (excerpt) Yes, it is true that in the same year, the University of Texas made exceptions and admitted some students with lower grades and test scores than Fisher. Five of those students were black or Latino. Forty-two were white.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

Even with strong race-based affirmative-action programs in place, 74% of students at the most selective colleges come from the richest quarter of the population, and just 10% from the bottom economic half.

this was recently in the news though it got little attention.......not only is financial add all across the board not targeted to poor families , but it also tends to go to families that dont need the aid to get their kids through university. This blows my mind, I always assumed that the entire point of the program was to help get students who deserved it into university inspite of the fact that they dont have the money to pay.

Boy, did I miss understand!

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@hawkeye10,

Agreed.

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@Buttermilk,

Quote:

Your family has nothing to do with what the statistics demonstrate as you've done in the Sterling thread. As I have proven affirmative action benefits whites more than minorities as I have shown two different links. I know its hard to argue against that.

LOL given that blacks are somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 percents of the total population that is no great surprise however you should go by the ratio or the numbers of persons help as in numbers per 100 thousands.

Not sheer numbers.

1 Reply

Quote:

Lash said: Native Americans have nothing on us in the savagery realm.

You gotta be kidding us girl!
For example, some godless heathen redskin tribes used to banish their elderly to die of cold and starvation rather than have a useless mouth to feed like this scene in 'A Man Called Horse' where a poor old banished indian woman dies in the snow in the top pic because nobody wants to look after her.
Later when another old woman is about to be banished, in steps English gentleman Harris, and tells her he'll be her son and will look after her (bottom pic)..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Man-horse_zpsad973e30.jpg~original

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I know Americans are steeped in stories of "Indian savages," but as you allude, Europeans (our homies) treated them as savagely. I've been researching a project set in that time - and Native Americans have nothing on us in the savagery realm.

I would like to hereby absolve Advocate of reparations debt.

SO STIPULATED.

David

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@BillRM,

Has nothing to do with population but I know you'll use statistics at your own convenience, something that is common on this website. Your argument continuously pinpoints that African-Americans and other people of color overwhelmingly benefit from affirmative action when its not true. So you need another argument.

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@Lash,

It's no surprise coming from someone who is admitted in their ignorance of other cultures

"Native Americans have nothing on us in the savagery realm."

History would have shown the imperial colonialist of Europe who went to various lands were not there for peace. I don't recall anything in the history of mankind where we see a group of whites en masse that went to a foreign on the pretense of goodwill. Africa, the Caribbeans, the Americas, Pacific Islands, all of these lands where Europeans and/or Americans have migrated was on the pretense to replace those cultures to install their own.

History has shown that Europeans were not only savages, racists, imperialist, but never respected the culture to which they came into contact with. A pure example is Sierre Leon. What happened to the original language of the people there? Why is Sierre Leon massively Christian? It wasn't their original faith before? My point is I am not saying the descendants of these people are evil but history has shown European culture was overwhelmingly brutal and antagonistic.

I didn't even mention the Crusades. The attacks on the "godless" Saracens and the Jews, because after all, the Saracens are godless and the Jews killed Jesus....Europeans have I would say a thousand years or more of savagery. I didn't even mention the Roman Empire....Jesus

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@Buttermilk,

Quote:

History has shown that Europeans were not only savages, racists, imperialist, but never respected the culture to which they came into contact with

The only group it is still PC to be racist towards are people from the white European cultural background.

We cry over the ending of the Aztec empire for example who turn their neighbors into slaves and also have the charming habit of seizing their young women and cutting out their hearts for religion reasons.

The Spanish have no problem in finding allies to bring those charming people down.

Sorry but white Europeans are not the first group that brought the sword to foreign lands and in fact it was in the same era of Columbus voyages that saw the end of the Muslin invasion of Europe.

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@BillRM,

There is a new argument being made that the art of war, and war itself, is a major component in the advancement of civilization. It clears away the old so that new can be born (structures/cities/organizations/ways of life) and it keeps the mind focused on trying to create better (the side with the best tech/skills/force of will...wins).

Sounds right to me. It is a major broadside on victim culture of course, so the idea sounds like it can not possibly be true because we dont want to believe it, but calm rational evaluation of the evidence suggests that maybe it is.

EDIT: the theory is also a major broadside on the Feminists and everyone else who is convinced that the way forwards to to utilize all types of brutality over the individual as they try to improve humans into their utopian visions of men as Gods. It suggests that not only are the parts of our nature that they despise deeply ingrained, but that they are also required to keep the species going forwards, and maybe even alive. It destroys everything they believe in. And just look at how they themselves decided that brutality is required!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

LOL Hawkeye

Quote:

B y Rudyard Kipling

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

1 Reply

@BillRM,

As an aside, have you ever wondered why the feminists don't want anyone reading anything that is more than 50 years old, why they go to great lengths to denigrate all of the old books? It is because the human wisdom built up over thousands of years informs on the true nature of what they are up to.

Cant. Have That.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

As an aside, have you ever wondered why the feminists don't want anyone reading anything that is more than 50 years old, why they go to great lengths to denigrate all of the old books? It is because the human wisdom built up over thousands of years informs on the true nature of what they are up to.

Our friend here attacked the Roman empire a culture that spread more knowledge and advancement around a larger percent of the globe then any empire before it.

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I'm interested in this. I was interested in the later part of an article I read.

I don't know enough.
I flee the thread - seems to me not to let me think, all the flinging.

at this point, I get the advice at the bottom of the article I read, re financial support and help, but I am still not clear what I think right now.

I liked the ideas of promotion of this and that industries, but that all seems lame..

People who are clueless being kindly.

I'm mixed on all this, now involved with habitat for humanity. So far, I think they are great and you all know me as pissyfit on wheels.

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Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

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