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Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 07:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, you might be surprised how often I agree with you.


what's the deal, are you getting reasonable?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 08:24 pm
It would be hard for me to thank people for giving me freedom, when such freedom tossed me to the wolves of racism. There were enclaves, where black folks could live reasonably well, but, in general, Jim Crow prevailed. A man I once worked for told me stories of how he and the rest of his family, in Mississippi, had to hide at night, because whites roved, just hoping to find any blacks foolish enough to venture out of doors. He said he feels more relaxed, visiting there, now. But, when a generous employer tried to move him to Elcampo to live and work, he said he knew his family would be unsafe there and declined. Living in Elcampo is not a lot different than living in Vidor, where black people are to this day murdered and the law cowers and shrinks from investigating, often.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 08:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
My point is that while there were only enclaves where blacks could live resonably well in the past, now, there are only enclaves where blacks are killed and the law covers them. (to paraphrase you)Is that not something to be thankful for?
There are black enclaves where I cant go with out fear of death.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 08:58 pm
@ossobuco,
No, you're getting irrational.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:22 pm
@giujohn,
I only described overt racism. Covert covers a wide swath of the public.

Sure, there are places where your life would be unsafe. What do you expect? At least you aren't going to be harassed or killed for the crime of driving while black. You aren't going to be murdered and the killer gets off because of stand your ground laws. You aren't going to get arrested for trying to spend money at an upscale store. infinitum
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:32 pm
@edgarblythe,
Well, I think your arguement has wondered into the relm of emotion rather than actual.
I dont think any of those things happen with even the slightest degree of regularity. The media would of course like to keep you believing that it runs rampant.
I can assure you the FBI goes after ANY case of civil rights violations by police departments as well as laws that violate civil rights with a fervent verocity.
I've seen it in my professional life up close.
In any case it is not systemic or at an institutionalized level...not even close.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 09:41 pm
@giujohn,
No good come back, they always charge emotionalism, despite the black and white of it in plain sight.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:24 pm
Quote:
Edgar said: A man I once worked for told me stories of how he and the rest of his family, in Mississippi, had to hide at night, because whites roved, just hoping to find any blacks foolish enough to venture out of doors.

Yee-haw!..Smile
Sounds like it was just a white neighbourhood watch group of good ole boys patrolling the area to keep it safe..Smile

Dialog from 'Mississippi Burning'-

Sheriff- "Simple fact is, Anderson, we got two cultures down here, white culture and a coloured culture.
That's the way it always has been, that's the way it always will be"
Gene Hackman- "The rest of America don't see it that way."
Sheriff- "The rest of America don't mean jack ****, you in Mississippi now."
Hackman- "Oh, that's for sure!"

0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2014 11:50 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

hawkeye wrote:
Reparations To American Blacks... Yes/No?
OmSigDAVID wrote:
The idea is RIDICULOUS.
hawkeye10 wrote:
WHY? You used to be a lawyer for cripes sake, an opinion needs a reasoning.
I used to get $4OO.OO an hour in the 198Os.
U r not going to pay me to analyze that foolishness.
David


No! Don't waste your time, David.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 08:11 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

My point is that while there were only enclaves where blacks could live resonably well in the past, now, there are only enclaves where blacks are killed and the law covers them. (to paraphrase you)Is that not something to be thankful for?

There are black enclaves where I cant go with out fear of death.
WHICH race are u ?

U might consider filling out a profile.
Buttermilk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 08:34 am
@ossobuco,
I have no clue what you just said here but ok
Buttermilk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 09:17 am
@giujohn,
Two things

1) I don't know how to use the quote feature here. I barely found out how to post YouTube videos.

2) On page 7, was what you said in the following:

"THE ONLY THING I WANT TO HEAR FROM BLACK IS YOU"RE WELCOME" Although you probably meant to say that us blacks should thank you.

Going back to Lincoln did you honestly think Lincoln, one who is credited of freeing slaves was not a racist himself? There are writings (use google) where he admitted that black people were not equal to whites. Also to respond to the comment you made about troop replenishment it is also historical fact that the north was losing men. Some historians believed that by helping to free slaves and encourage them to fight for the union, they could replenish their numbers after all, blacks too fought in the civil war.

I overall think its disingenuous for any white person to ask for a thank you, I mean after all, whites of this mindset, don't want to be associated with slavery:

"Why are blacks so upset I never owned slaves."

Even when the chains on bondage were broken, blacks in this country were broken themselves and still encapsulated, because blacks still faced systematic racism. Need I get into segregation? It's only been 50 years since we've supposedly gotten over that.

So what am I thanking whites for? Or wait, blacks should thank the United States. Ok, so we should thank the U.S for freeing us, ok, what about Jim Crow or the fact that blacks had to ride the back of buses or use segregated facilities? Or what about whites asking for Obama's birth certificate? That system in its entirety was systemic slavery in itself so why do you think blacks should thank you? Cause, that is what your saying right? Blacks thanking their former captors.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 10:01 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

All Germans were not gung-ho Nazis, but many willingly participated and/or endorsed the systematic oppression, degradation and slaughter of a very large group of people for the most banal and hateful reasons. Do you find that they were more victims of societal brainwashing than monsters in their own right?

I know I don't have the depth of forgiveness and understanding you may possess, and I don't expect African-Americans or Jews or anyone to either.

There is a difference, however, between holding actual perpetrators responsible and laying the sins of the certain fathers at the feet of their children, their grandchildren, their great-great grandchildren, their neighbors, anyone who speaks their language or all who look like them.


I put much credence on sociology. Meaning that the society shapes us. Europe had a culture (aka, society) that promulgated anti-Semitism after Europe became Christian. The pagans just considered Jews as "odd-fellows" that had the laughable belief that the universe can be managed by one God. Silly in the minds of a pagan that believed in a pantheon of Gods. And, Christianity codified the feelings towards Jews as Christ killers (remember that Moslems do not believe that Christ died on the cross). So, with almost/more than a millenium of anti-Semitism (different parts of Europe became Christianized at different times) in Europe, to the point that it was as much part of the popular culture as Santa is part of today's popular culture, it was fertile ground for the Final Solution to appear as just "spring cleaning" for many in Europe. Some say that Germany just had modern technology to do what prior anti-Semites did not have. I do not demonize Germans. I basically avoid Europeans, since they mostly, in my opinion, have a hubris about their respective culture that includes the concept of "insider" and "outsider." Jews were perennial outsiders in Christian Europe. Officically, the U.S. does not subscribe to the "outsider" reference, even though there are folks that would like the U.S. to be more like historical Europe. In effect, I can only be fairly comfortable in the U.S., and only certain regions.

Since the lesson of anti-Semitism afforded such a long learning curve, I do not believe it can be eradicated overnight. Probably because there will always be those that want to think of Jews as "too different" to really be accepted as "one of us." Just my opinion, based on trying to be realistic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 10:15 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I put much credence on sociology. Meaning that the society shapes us.
And why don't you consider the European feudal system? Jews were not part of this system, neither in Roman, pagan times nor later under Christians.

The persecution of the European Jews began in the High Middle Ages with the Crusades.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 10:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I put much credence on sociology. Meaning that the society shapes us.
And why don't you consider the European feudal system? Jews were not part of this system, neither in Roman, pagan times nor later under Christians.

The persecution of the European Jews began in the High Middle Ages with the Crusades.


Nyet! Jews were part of the feudal system, since they were the King's/prince's property (aka, the King's Jews). So, Jews could be tax collectors, since good Christians did not handle money (aka, filthy lucre).

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 10:30 am
@Buttermilk,
I was talking about my friends and affirmative action - I was always for it, but they were sometimes perceived by others to have gotten admitted to university as some kind of ride, when in fact their high school grades had been fine. My memory is that at that time one had to fall within the admission guidelines in any case, but that some lower down within those guidelines would get picked because of being in a group that had fewer people represented in the school population so there would be more diversity. I am thinking I'm still for that kind of affirmative action, but I understand arguments against it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 11:18 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Nyet! Jews were part of the feudal system, since they were the King's/prince's property (aka, the King's Jews).
That's a nice urban legend.

The correct legal term is "servi camerae regis" (servants of the royal chamber, or in the original German: "Kammerknechtschaft". (It was a reaction of the enslavement of the Jewish people to the Roman emperors Vespasian and Titus.)
And exactly that is proof them being out of feudal system (They could not be tied to land nor belong to guilds.)
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 12:17 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk wrote:
Two things

1) I don't know how to use the quote feature here.
I barely found out how to post YouTube videos.

2) On page 7, was what you said in the following:

"THE ONLY THING I WANT TO HEAR FROM BLACK IS YOU"RE WELCOME"
Although you probably meant to say that us blacks should thank you.
I 'm sure that is what he had in mind.



Buttermilk wrote:
Going back Lincoln did you honestly think Lincoln,
one who is credited of freeing slaves was not a racist himself?
Most people very likely believe that Abe Lincoln was not a racist,
because thay have not read his speeches addressing racial difference.
If the black race had been respected, then it never wud have been enslaved
in the first place. In the 17OOs and the 18OOs, blacks were deemed livestock.
Thay were sold like cattle or chickens. That was the temper of the times.
It always had been; I doubt that anyone in Lincoln's lifetime had ever claimed
that blacks and whites were racially equal, not so far as I 've ever heard.
The same Congress that voted for the 13th and 14th Amendments
also voted for segregated schools in the District of Columbia.
Maybe u can find someone who had a different point of vu in the 18OOs
or earlier. Surely, very few (if any) people then believed in racial equality.
Lincoln was passionate in his opposition to slavery; so were vast numbers
of Americans who elected him President, but he 'd have had little
chance of success if he 'd have campaigned promoting such things as
Martin L. King or Al Sharpton said. The voters 'd have thought he was nuts.
Tho I 've not researched this, to me it seems un-likely that even John Brown,
in the heat of his anti-slavery fervor ever alleged that blacks n whites
were racially equal. In the 18OOs, almost no one believed in that.
The new mayor of NY City has liberated the horses from the carriages
that thay used to pull in Central Park. U can ask him if he deems
the equine race to be equal to the voters who elected him.



Buttermilk wrote:
There are writings (use google) where he admitted that black
people were not equal to whites.
Yes. I 'm not aware of any survays taken in the 1860s,
but I 'm pretty sure that it woud have been very difficult to find
many Americans (or any other nationality) who believed that whites
and blacks were racially equal.

If the Union soldiers invading the South had been asked whether
blacks were equal to them, there's not much chance of getting
a result that u 'd like. Do u disagree ?

In the 19OOs, in New York City (which had sent huge numbers
of soldiers to fight, to invade the South years before
) in the world
into which I was born, blacks were not very popular and were not
held in high esteem by anyone I knew, judging by their spoken opinions,
tho we seldom mentioned your race much.



Buttermilk wrote:
I overall think its disingenuous for any white person to ask for a thank you,
I remember Cassius Clay or M. Ali, expressing his gratitude
for his not having to live in Africa.



Buttermilk wrote:
Even when the chains on bondage were broken,
blacks in this country were broken, blacks still faced systematic racism.
Do u allege that the whites have a DUTY to LIKE u??
or to desire to hang around with u???
If so, then where did that duty come from?



Buttermilk wrote:
Need I get into segregation?
No, but u can if u want to do it.

Buttermilk wrote:
It's only been 50 years since we've supposedly gotten over that.
Do u deny that both races self-segregate??
Remember the jury in the O.J. trial?
It is ofen the case that people like
to associate with their own kind. Big surprize ?
"Birds of a feather flock together."


Buttermilk wrote:
So what am I thanking whites for?
The fact that u don 't live in Africa.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 12:50 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk,

you can get the quote thing to work if you go to Preferences (bottom of the page in the dark blue strip) - there's a place to enable it, and you won't have to keep doing that, it'll stay enabled.


Also, have you enabled BBCode yet? If not, when you go to reply, the window will have wee green letters that say something like enable BBCode Editor. (I'm not sure since mine now says Close BBCode editor (I've had it open for years now). There's a quote button there when BBCode is open too, but I've never used it.
0 Replies
 
Buttermilk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2014 01:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Why are you quoting me? This was not addressed to you counselor.
 

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