The true meaning of separation between church and state

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Harris implies in the context below, that "leading figures" of the United States failed (and fail?) to follow the constitutional rule - the separation of church and state. For example: the presidents are sworn into office by the Bible. Why not be without the Bible if America really determines to separate church and state?

Context:

However, Harris also critiques the role of the Christian right in the United States, in influencing such areas as drug policies, embryonic stem cell research, and AIDS prevention in the developing world. In what he sees as a steady drift towards theocracy, Harris strongly criticises leading figures from both the legislature and the judiciary for what he perceives as an unabashed failure to separate church and state in their various domains. "Not only do we still eat the offal of the ancient world," he asserts, "we are positively smug about it."

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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 509 • Replies: 13

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@oristarA,

Rise up,
Like Sun.
We want you,
Uncle Sam!

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@oristarA,

Ori it isn't just "leading figures," but citizens of all stripes who continually push the Christian doctrine. The hilltop cross for instanced often wins a permanent home, but I've often wondered whether the star and crescent would be equally welcome

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Ori it isn't just "leading figures," but citizens of all stripes who continually push the Christian doctrine. The hilltop cross for instanced often wins a permanent home, but I've often wondered whether the star and crescent would be equally welcome

Still a long way to go to the true separation of church and state?

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@oristarA,

Quote:

Still a long way to go to the true separation of church and state?

I'd say so

However I'd allow an exception in the case of historical artifact; I wouldn't for instance require the deconstruction of an ancient cross

But I wouldn't insist on the removal of a crescent either

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It does seem paradoxical to me as an Englishman, where we have a State religion that nobody believes in, to contemplate the USA, where they have separation of Church and state, but a seemingly de-facto State religion that most people believe in.

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@contrex,

Yea Con, me too

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I think America is awfully uptight about religion, more so than the other countries I have spent any time in. Religious symbols abound in other secular democracies. In many countries statues of Christ, or Buddha are visible on hilltops. In many of the countries with more visible religious symbols there is less intrusion of religion into politics.

America has very strange, conflicted and sometimes ridiculous views of freedom of religion.

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@contrex,

contrex wrote:

It does seem paradoxical to me as an Englishman, where we have a State religion that nobody believes in, to contemplate the USA, where they have separation of Church and state, but a seemingly de-facto State religion that most people believe in.

It is weird that Dawkins says "American polls suggest that atheists and agnostics far outnumber religious Jews, and even outnumber most other particular religious groups. Unlike Jews, however, who are notoriously one of
the most effective political lobbies in the United States, and unlike
evangelical Christians, who wield even greater political power,
atheists and agnostics are not organized and therefore exert almost
zero influence. Indeed, organizing atheists has been compared to"

His data offers a stark difference to yours, Contrex.

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@oristarA,

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps3c6d9dc2.jpg

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/b_zps60fe2c5f.jpg

Source: PEW report

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

So Dawkins' wrong or misquoted?

1 Reply

@oristarA,

Well, when you look at the figures: atheists and agnostics do outnumber religious Jews and quite a few other religious groups as well.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, when you look at the figures: atheists and agnostics do outnumber religious Jews and quite a few other religious groups as well.

Dawkins' implication seems to tell us atheists and agnostics far outnumber religious people, including Christians.

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@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

It is weird that Dawkins says "American polls suggest that atheists and agnostics far outnumber religious Jews, and even outnumber most other particular religious groups."

His data offers a stark difference to yours, Contrex.

Dawkins appears to be saying that the number of atheists and agnostics is greater than the numbers of members of most specific religious groups taken individually, e.g. Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims. He is correct in this.

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The true meaning of separation between church and state

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