22
   

Donald Sterling

 
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 12:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Have thay been so LOYAL and supportive of their father or grandfather
as to justify his concern for their well-being????????

Did u quote his daughter denouncing him or repudiating him,,
in this thread???? Did thay EARN his loyalty, Firefly????

His daughter denounced the kind of statements he made on that tape, I didn't read anything about her repudiating him, or her relationship with him. And he wept during the Anderson Cooper interview when talking about how his 5 year old granddaughter was denied candy by other children at school, "Because we don't give candy to racists," so he's aware how his children and grandchildren are being affected by this, and all the publicity about it.

And, if he loves and cares about them, he should give thought to what he'd be putting them through by dragging this out with a long legal battle. Maybe he will wind up doing that.

Personally, I don't think you have to be loyal or supportive of a father or grandfather to justify their concern for your well being. If a parent or grandparent loves you, they are concerned about you, the concern doesn't have to be earned. But that's my opinion.

If you see it differently, fine. I'm not interested in continuing to debate the point with you.





hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 12:31 am
@firefly,
Quote:
when talking about how his 5 year old granddaughter was denied candy by other children at school, "Because we don't give candy to racists," so he's aware how his children and grandchildren are being affected by this, and all the publicity about it.

And, if he loves and cares about them, he should give thought to what he'd be putting them through by dragging this out with a long legal battle. Maybe he will wind up doing that.
You are justifying cruelty to children which is being rationalized by naming the alleged sins of the grandfather...Sterling is in no way responsible for this barbarity, and should not pretend to be. You are also recommending that Sterling follow the Silver in caving in and sacrificing what is right and just in order to pacify the mob immediately, to my mind Sterling gets points for refusing. I think he is setting a good example for his granddaughter.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 01:15 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Sterling is in no way responsible for this barbarity, and should not pretend to be

Well, he does take responsibility for the hurt he's caused to others, including his granddaughter--hurt caused by his own behavior--by his remarks on that tape--he said that repeatedly to Anderson Cooper--that was the point of that alleged apology during that interview.
Quote:
I think he is setting a good example for his granddaughter.

Not by being a racist.
Quote:
You are also recommending that Sterling follow the Silver in caving in and sacrificing what is right and just in order to pacify the mob immediately,

No, I think his biased remarks were extremely offensive to the majority of players in pro-basketball. And the remarks were damaging and disruptive to the NBA and basketball in terms of their impact. And insulting to many fans of basketball. What would be "right and just" would be for him to relinquish control of the Clippers without creating more problems for the NBA and basketball.

And, refusing to pay the $2.5 million fine, gives them even more clear reason to oust him--as they will do.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 04:16 am
@hawkeye10,
.
Quote:
You are also recommending that Sterling follow the Silver in caving in and sacrificing what is right and just in order to pacify the mob immediately, to my mind Sterling gets points for refusing. I think he is setting a good example for his granddaughter.


To me he should have been must firmer by just stating that he is refusing to address anything that was said in a private conversation as that is inherently no one else business but the two parties involved and hitting the NBA at once with an injunction and at least one lawsuit aim at Silver personally.

Of course he is an old and sick and tired man, to the point this whole media driven mob action is beginning to resemble a case of elder abuse.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 09:37 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Have thay been so LOYAL and supportive of their father or grandfather
as to justify his concern for their well-being????????

Did u quote his daughter denouncing him or repudiating him,,
in this thread???? Did thay EARN his loyalty, Firefly????
firefly wrote:
His daughter denounced the kind of statements he made on that tape
Because she thought that not enuf
people were piling on dear old Dad,
down at the bottom of the heap.

She is a demonstrated ingrate.
Among her friends: can anyone trust her ?

Donald might well consider a codicil amending his will
concerning familiy members who choose to join the attack
instead of supporting the man who gave her life.





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:15 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
good thing that Mr. Sterling knew he was being taped by his "archivist" (and that there is apparently someone else on the tape confirming that knowledge)

On double-checking, I see you're right to point out that Sterling consented to being recorded. This means I was wrong about the legal side of it, and it mellows my moral indignation a little.

But only a little, because the core point remains: Sterling is guilty of thinking impure thoughts. He is guilty of telling these thoughts to his girlfriend (according to him) or platonic friend (according to her lawyer), who recorded him for unknown purposes of his own, in what both sides reasonably believed to be a private conversation. None of this constitutes a breach of contract with anyone, nor is it properly the subject of a public scandal. To leak the recording, against the will of both the recordist and the recorded, was a serious breach of privacy, with no good reason to justify it.This is a tempest in a cable box, manufactured by a national outrage industry. Legal or not, I'm not buying this industry's product.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:17 am
It is about damn time for Sterling to counter attack over this silliness that a private conversation can be used to seized a sport team.

Quote:
SI.com has learned that Clippers owner Donald Sterling has hired prominent antitrust litigator Maxwell Blecher, who has written a letter to NBA executive vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan threatening to sue the NBA. The letter, sources tell SI.com, claims that Sterling has done nothing wrong and that "no punishment is warranted" for Sterling. Blecher also tells Buchanan that Sterling will not pay the $2.5 million fine, which is already past due. Blecher ends the letter by saying this controversy "will be adjudicated."
Blecher's letter makes clear what many have anticipated: Donald Sterling will not go down without a fight and that he is taking active steps toward litigation. A letter of this type is considered a precursor to the filing of a lawsuit. Blecher's letter offers no ambiguity about Sterling's intentions.
"We reject your demand for payment," the letter tells Buchanan, who on May 14 informed Sterling by letter that he must pay the $2.5 million fine.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140515/donald-sterling-nba-la-clippers-adam-silver/#ixzz31tqcuUkK
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:35 am
@BillRM,
Later in the article, Sports Illustrated outlines Sterling's defense, which looks surprisingly shaky to me:

Sports Illustrated wrote:
Blecher's letter goes on to identify two basic legal defenses for Sterling. First, Blecher claims that Sterling has not violated any article of the NBA constitution. The letter curiously references Article 35, which governs players' misconduct, and several other provisions. The NBA is expected to argue that Sterling violated Article 13(d) among other provisions. Article 13 (d) bars owners from violating contractual obligations, including the obligation that owners no engage in unethical conduct or take positions adverse to the NBA. Blecher does not explain how he intends to prove Sterling's racist remarks captured on the secret recording -- followed by Sterling's incendiary remarks to Anderson Cooper about Magic Johnson -- do not give rise to unethical conduct or positions adverse to the NBA.

As the old lawyer proverb has it: "If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the law is on your side, argue the law. If neither is on your side, pound the table." The appeal to non-applicable provisions in the NBA constitution sounds a lot like table-pounding. Also, Sports Illustrated makes a good point: No matter if the private original recordings amount to Sterling taking positions adverse to the NBA, his public appearance on Anderson Cooper is unquestionably fair game.


Sports Illustrated then wrote:
Second, Blecher argues that Sterling's "due process rights" have been violated by the NBA. A due process claim may sound superficially reasonable. After all, Sterling was banned permanently from the NBA after a mere four-day investigation, without any formal proceedings. If the NBA were a federal agency or a state college, Sterling might have a good argument, as those are public entities that must provide safeguards found under the U.S. Constitution and state constitutions. The problem for Sterling is that the NBA is a private association and is not required to provide due process rights. Sterling, moreover, contractually assented to the NBA's system of justice through various contracts, including his franchise agreement to purchase the Clippers and the joint venture agreement, which indicates the NBA has binding authority over the teams.

This definitely sounds like table-pounding on the part of Stirling's lawyer. He must know that the NBA is not a government and that the due process guarantees under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments do not apply. Appealing to constitutional law in a contract dispute like this is pure hyperbole. Sterling's lawyer does not seem to believe he has a good case here.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:52 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
Later in the article, Sports Illustrated outlines Sterling's defense, which looks surprisingly shaky to me:


Quote:
he must know that the NBA is not a government and that the due process guarantees under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments do not apply



Partners agreements and what elements is reasonable enough to be allowed to be enforced by courts in contracts in general is however cover by both states and federal laws and this whole NBA agreement and how it is being apply in this case seems to be completely unreasonable to the point of not being enforceable to me.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 11:54 am
@Thomas,
ehBeth wrote:
good thing that Mr. Sterling knew he was being taped by his "archivist"
(and that there is apparently someone else on the tape confirming that knowledge)
Thomas wrote:
On double-checking, I see you're right to point out that Sterling consented to being recorded. This means I was wrong about the legal side of it, and it mellows my moral indignation a little.

But only a little, because the core point remains: Sterling is guilty of thinking impure thoughts. He is guilty of telling these thoughts to his girlfriend (according to him) or platonic friend (according to her lawyer), who recorded him for unknown purposes of his own, in what both sides reasonably believed to be a private conversation. None of this constitutes a breach of contract with anyone, nor is it properly the subject of a public scandal. To leak the recording, against the will of both the recordist and the recorded, was a serious breach of privacy, with no good reason to justify it.This is a tempest in a cable box, manufactured by a national outrage industry. Legal or not, I'm not buying this industry's product.
VERY WELL SAID!

U shuda become a lawyer.





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 12:09 pm
@firefly,
USA Today, as quoted by Firefly, wrote:
As long as the NBA meticulously follows its own constitution and rules regarding the Clippers sale, it will be difficult for Sterling to find a legal theory that would stand up in court, said Daniel Lazaroff, director of the Sports Law Institute at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

"This is not an antitrust issue. This is not a First Amendment issue," Lazaroff said. "It's a question limited to the interpretation of the NBA constitution and bylaws, and whether those terms are met."

I think that's incorrect. Under the general principles of contract law, one possible defense against a breach-of-contract charge is that the contract itself is illegal. Hence, as joefromchicago pointed out earlier, Sterling could get the charge dismissed by convincing a court that the NBA constitution establishes a trust, violating federal antitrust law. And even if he doesn't, the process of discovery on this point has the potential to embarrass the NBA so much it might prefer not to go through with Sterling's termination. (That's related to a point Sports Illustrated raises at the end of the article BillRM linked to.) Strangely enough, though, Sports Illustrated doesn't mention the antitrust move as a possible part of Sterling's defense.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 12:40 pm
@Thomas,
It is my understanding that there is no appeal allowed of either the commission rulings or actions in the ownership agreement either to the courts or to a third party binding arbitration, and once more how legal can that be?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 01:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
It is my understanding that there is no appeal allowed of either the commission rulings or actions in the ownership agreement either to the courts or to a third party binding arbitration, and once more how legal can that be?

It can be perfectly legal. In general, contract law allows you to sign away your rights to resolve disputes through the legal system --- with specific exceptions designed to protect the weaker partner in an excessively asymmetric power relationship. (See, for example, Wikipedia's article on arbitration clauses.) But I don't see these exceptions applying to billionaire Donald Sterling, so I don't see how a court would sack the contract on these grounds. (Again, though, I'm not a lawyer, so my not seeing the way this would work doesn't mean there isn't one.)
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 01:23 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
excessively asymmetric power relationship. (See, for example, Wikipedia's article on arbitration clauses.) But I don't see these exceptions applying to billionaire Donald Sterling, so I don't see how a court would sack the contract on these grounds. (Again, though, I'm not a lawyer, so my not seeing the way this would work doesn't mean there isn't one.)


By the claims of the NBA he as an owner have no rights or protections of any kind from any arbitrary actions no matter how irrational or capricious those actions might be.

Like you I am not a lawyer however that sound like a completely asymmetric power relationship no matter how wealthy Sterling happen to be.

Once more we already have a history where Sterling had sue a NBA commissioner for a 100 millions over a 25 millions dollars fine for moving his team without permission and the results was a settlement where the fine was reduce to 2 millions.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 01:54 pm
It would seems that Stirling lawyer had deal with the NBA before on Sterling behalf and there are reasons to think he know what the hell he is doing


Quote:
USA Today also got a peek at the letter, and says Blecher wrote that Sterling's racist comments weren't deserving of "any punishment at all." The paper notes that Blecher represented Sterling when he sued the NBA for $100 million after the league fined Sterling $25 million for moving the Clippers from San Diego to Los Angeles (Sterling dropped the suit when the NBA lowered the fine to $6 million).

Sterling chose his lawyer well. At the top of Blecher's list of legal accomplishments is his 1983 win over the NFL when it tried to stop the Raiders from moving from Los Angeles to Oakland.

0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:02 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Like you I am not a lawyer however that sound like a completely asymmetric power relationship no matter how wealthy Sterling happen to be.

To the contrary, the NBA constitution establishes a perfectly symmetric power relationship among the owners. Each of them is equally bound by it. Commissioner Adam Silver, who barred Sterling for life from attending his own team's games, is working for the owners, not the other way round. If they agreed to fire him, he would be gone in an instant. But none of them has moved to do that. We must conclude, then, that Silver is simply enforcing the rules on which the owners agreed among themselves.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:03 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Strangely enough, though, Sports Illustrated doesn't mention the antitrust move as a possible part of Sterling's defense.

McCann, in SI, has mentioned a possible antitrust action in his other columns which have been posted or linked to in this thread. Here's one.
Quote:
The league, sources say, believes it is on strong legal grounds. Sterling's own signature will ultimately come back to haunt him. He signed a series of documents that, in so many words, express that he agreed to whatever disciplinary steps are taken by the commissioner and his fellow owners. While a court could review the NBA's interpretation of the constitution, bylaws and other agreements, a court would accord Silver broad deference to interpret the language of these documents. As to an antitrust claim, sources say it would require a quixotic interpretation of the antitrust law for Sterling to prevail. He would have to show that the NBA and its owners have conspired against him in an anticompetitive way, thus harming the Clippers' value and his return on its sale. Antitrust attorney and law professor Chris Sagers tells SI.com he is pessimistic that Sterling would prevail. "[T]he only injury he'll be able to state would be that he is forced to sell when he doesn't want to and that he'll have to recognize taxable gain at an inopportune time . . . neither seem like an antitrust injury. Merely forcing the sale of the Clippers doesn't remove the Clippers from competition with the other NBA teams and with other entertainment products."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140509/donald-sterling-legal-analysis-nba-clippers/#ixzz31uV7TfCI
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:06 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Under the general principles of contract law, one possible defense against a breach-of-contract charge is that the contract itself is illegal. Hence, as joefromchicago pointed out earlier, Sterling could get the charge dismissed by convincing a court that the NBA constitution establishes a trust, violating federal antitrust law

given the persistent rumblings in Congress that the major sports leagues and maybe even the NCAA should be deprived of their ability to violate anti-trust laws the time might be right for a case to go the SCOTUS on the matter. Sterling might not live long enough to get there, but he sure should be able to drag this out for many years.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:07 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
McCann, in SI, has mentioned a possible antitrust action in his other columns which have been posted or linked to in this thread. Here's one.

Thanks!

firefly wrote:
Antitrust attorney and law professor Chris Sagers tells SI.com he is pessimistic that Sterling would prevail. "[T]he only injury he'll be able to state would be that he is forced to sell when he doesn't want to and that he'll have to recognize taxable gain at an inopportune time . . . neither seem like an antitrust injury. Merely forcing the sale of the Clippers doesn't remove the Clippers from competition with the other NBA teams and with other entertainment products."

Mr. Sagers seems to be addressing the wrong question though. It is one thing for Sterling to press anti-trust charges against the NBA. It's another thing to defend himself against the NBA's breach-of-contract charges by arguing that the breached contract was illegal. The first is a charge under antitrust law, the second a defense under contract law.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:16 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
is working for the owners, not the other way round. If they agreed to fire him, he would be gone in an instant.


If I remember correctly it take a super majority not the majority of owners to get rid of Silver under the agreement so him being an employee working at the whims of the owners is only a half true.

My bet is if they could vote in secret he would be gone now by the way as he had placed them in a hell of a position over Sterling without their permissions.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Should cheerleading be a sport? - Discussion by joefromchicago
Are You Ready For Fantasy Baseball - 2009? - Discussion by realjohnboy
tennis grip - Question by madalina
How much faster could Usain Bolt have gone? - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Sochi Olympics a Resounding Success - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Donald Sterling
  3. » Page 39
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 12/28/2024 at 05:07:25