22
   

Donald Sterling

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 11:22 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I definitely agree that the public firestorm is an important aspect of free speech.
He says what he says; we say what we say. <---a good thing.
People may choose to support him or fight him with boycotts etc...

What I question is forcing him to sell his property. As the particulars
of his legal contract as an owner of the team emerge, my opinion
on that issue will form.
Mine too. Consensus facit legem.





David
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 01:28 pm
@Lash,
Here's an article I just read laying out the legal thinking:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140509/donald-sterling-legal-analysis-nba-clippers/
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 01:34 pm
@Lash,
You know a public firestorm is one thing a media driven campaign where only one position is taken is another thing.

I can remember being in a Phoenix audition in 1978 watching the author Harlan Ellison using his skills to worked up almost a lynch mob aimed at a vendor that had dare to annoyed him.

It was both interesting and frightening to be in this group and feels the emotions being build up against a man that only Ellison have any reason to be annoyed at.

In the case of Stirling, instead of one man working up a few hundreds people in an audition we have a universal media driven campaign to do the same thing.

Like in 1978, I needed to take myself out of the emotions driven environment to come to the conclusion that private comments to a lover that is completely without any racial slurs does not call for this level of outrageous independent of a media driven campaign any more then the level of hate/dislike toward some vendor that Ellison had drum up was called for.



firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 01:48 pm
@ossobuco,
That's an excellent article, osso.

And it address most, if not all, of the salient issues that have been raised regarding this action against Sterling.

It does seem that, while Sterling may well drag this out, the NBA seems to have strong legal grounds on their side.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 01:49 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
You know a public firestorm is one thing a media driven campaign where only one position is taken is another thing.

I can remember being in a Phoenix audition in 1978 watching the author Harlan Ellison using his skills to worked up almost a lynch mob aimed at a vendor that had dare to annoyed him.

It was both interesting and frightening to be in this group and feels the emotions being build up against a man that only Ellison have any reason to be annoyed at.

In the case of Stirling, instead of one man working up a few hundreds people in an audition we have a universal media driven campaign to do the same thing.

Like in 1978, I needed to take myself out of the emotions driven environment to come to the conclusion that private comments to a lover that is completely without any racial slurs does not call for this level of outrageous independent of a media driven campaign any more then the level of hate/dislike toward some vendor that Ellison had drum up was called for.
I attended a Star Trek convention in NY, at which he gave a speech.
He was a different kind of a fellow; rather surprizing.
In his demeanor, he was as aggressive as his speech was obscene.
He was a very fine quality writer; he wrote The City On The Edge of Forever.
By overwhelming consensus, that was the finest n most popular episode of Classic Star Trek.

I agree with your observtions qua Sterling.
He has apparently chosen to remain silent in all this fuss.





David
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 01:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I agree with your observtions qua Sterling. He has apparently chosen
to remain silent in all this fuss.

I'm not so sure about that.

I think he deliberately created, and participated in, the "leak" of the latest "private conversation". It's his way of getting out his side of the story without having to give an interview. I don't think he's above trying to manipulate, and use, the media in that way.

Nor do I see any of this as a media driven campaign against Sterling. This is an action against Sterling clearly decided upon within the NBA, for their own reasons. The media is simply following the story.
0 Replies
 
Buttermilk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:06 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Actually Sterling hasn't been silent. In one instance it was reported Sterling said "I should've paid her off." Meaning Ms. Stiviano

Another recent report Sterling said "I'm not a racist."
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:10 pm
@Lash,
No...It's true. I looked her up myself. Her names changed after certain crimes she has committed.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:34 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk wrote:
Another recent report Sterling said "I'm not a racist."
If he is having carnal relations with a Mexican black,
then I guess he is telling the truth.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:28 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
If he is having carnal relations with a Mexican black,
then I guess he is telling the truth.

Racist white men have never found black or mixed race women acceptable for sex?

Even the slave owners in this country did.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 06:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Do any of those things excuse Donald Sterling's racist attitudes, or yours?

THIS bothers. Racism is crappy, but it's not illegal in this context - and who needs to excuse Sterling? Should we all list our private sins and stand ready to be judged by the public? Do we put all our **** on the public chopping block?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 06:29 pm
@Lash,
I'm on the nfl side here, by and large, for the various nfl reasons in that SI link I gave (besides that I don't like him), but am bothered that the tape got requisitioned by the maritally separated Mrs. S's attorneys and then somehow became public. Or so I read. That this is a public harm to the Clippers is a big arrow at the target of making him sell.

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 06:53 pm
@Lash,
This really isn't about Sterling's right to free speech, or the fact that the remarks were said in private. And it's really more about the corporate and player reactions than about the public's reaction.

The issue, for the NBA, is that, once they became known, the remarks were damaging to the NBA and the sport--they resulted in financial damage and threatened the NBA's business operations--in addition, the players threatened a walkout--the remarks damaged the image of the NBA and its functioning. The only way to stop the damage, was to get rid of Sterling--and he is now banned from the NBA for life. And because he threatens the NBA's business operations, and causes them harm, that's reason to force the sale of the team, according to their constitution.

This is from the article osso posted. It's a very good article, I think everyone interested in this situation should read it.
Quote:
League officials, sources say, are not concerned with the fact that NBA owners in the past have likely engaged in immoral or unethical conduct without facing league discipline, let alone expulsion. The NBA is focused as much, if not more, on the impact of conduct as the conduct itself. From the NBA's vantage point, Sterling caused a massively negative and unprecedented business impact. The league was genuinely worried about playing games as players threatened a boycott. The President of the United States sharply criticized Sterling and linked Sterling's remarks to the legacy of slavery. Even if Sterling's underlying conduct -- making racist statements in private -- could be considered unexceptionally wrong, the impact of his conduct triggered exceptional, unprecedented and global harm to the NBA. This reasoning explains why, although Sterling had previously been implicated in racist behavior through lawsuits brought by former general manager Elgin Baylor and the U.S. Department of Justice, those incidents did not (for whatever reason) trigger the same social outrage and threaten the NBA's business operations.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140509/donald-sterling-legal-analysis-nba-clippers/#ixzz31MSnbhHd


Corporate sponsors began to withdraw their support immediately--these sponsors withdrew within one day:
Quote:
Corporate Sponsors End Ties to the Clippers
By Ira Boudway
April 28, 2014

In just the first business day since the release of an audio recording of Sterling telling his then-girlfriend to avoid publicizing her associations with black people, several sponsors have already dropped the team. Below are collected sponsor statements. It is worth noting that the companies are careful to distinguish between relationships with the team and any of its players.

CarMax (KMX): “CarMax finds the statements attributed to the Clippers’ owner completely unacceptable. These views directly conflict with CarMax’s culture of respect for all individuals. While we have been a proud Clippers sponsor for 9 years and support the team, fans and community, these statements necessitate that CarMax end its sponsorship.”

State Farm: “State Farm strongly supports and respects diversity and inclusion. The remarks attributed to the Clippers’ owner are offensive. While those involved sort out the facts, we will be taking a pause in our relationship with the organization. We are monitoring the situation and we’ll continually assess our options. We have a great relationship with Chris Paul and will continue supporting the Born to Assist advertising campaign involving Chris and now other NBA players.”

Virgin America: “While we continue to support the fans and the players, Virgin America has made the decision to end its sponsorship of the L.A. Clippers.”

Red Bull: “We trust and respect the NBA’s process to formally investigate the matter, and in the interim, are suspending all team-related marketing activities. We will continue to support our Red Bull athlete, Blake Griffin, his teammates and coaching staff in their pursuit of an NBA title.”

Kia Motors (000270:KS): “The comments allegedly made by Clippers owner, Donald Sterling, are offensive and reprehensible, and they are inconsistent with our views and values. We are suspending our advertising and sponsorship activations with the Clippers. Meanwhile, as fans of the game of basketball, our support of the players and the sport is unwavering.”

Aquahydrate (via Twitter, confirmed on the phone): “In the wake of Sterling’s alleged intolerable comments we are suspending our Clippers sponsorship until the NBA completes its investigation.”

Amtrak: “Amtrak believes the language used is unacceptable and is inconsistent with our corporate belief to treat everyone with integrity and dignity. Our sponsorship with the LA Clippers expired at the end of the regular season a few weeks ago. As with any sponsorship advertising, some assets remain in market—to that end we are diligently working to remove all sponsorship assets. Moving forward, we will continue to monitor the situation as we look to make decisions about 2014-15 sports marketing sponsorships.”

Chumash Casino Resort: “We’ve always been proud supporters of the Los Angeles Clippers, however, the recent statements attributed to the Clippers’ owner have forced us to reconsider our relationship. We remain supportive of the members of the team and we wish them the very best going forward. As a group that has long been marginalized itself, the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians and the Chumash Casino Resort are especially sensitive to maintaining the dignity of all people. We cannot ignore any statement that causes harm or hurts any group. As a result, we’re withdrawing our sponsorship of the Clippers organization.”

Lumber Liquidators: “In light of the racist comments allegedly made by the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, Lumber Liquidators is suspending all planned advertising for the team’s 2014-2015 season until further notice.”

Yokohama Tire Corporation: “Yokohama Tire Corporation does not tolerate discrimination in any fashion. The alleged remarks by Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling are completely unacceptable and we find it necessary to immediately suspend our sponsorship of the organization as a result. We will continue to assess the situation and weigh our options. Meanwhile, we wish to express our continued support to the Clippers players and fans.”

Corona/Constellation Brands: “Like everyone else, Corona is appalled by the comments allegedly made by the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers. These comments run counter to the type of brand Corona aspires to be. Because of this, we are suspending our sponsorship agreement with the Clippers until the NBA completes its investigation.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-28/donald-sterling-and-the-lost-l-dot-a-dot-clippers-sponsors
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:24 pm
@firefly,
Yes...

To amend my last comment, re the private tape becoming public, and it bothering me, that is because I worry that that could mess up taking his/her ownership down. And worrying that that might be right.
You're helping me clarify that concern.... I think.

But the matter of private speech being 'sacrosanct' is also based on reason, obviously, though tattletaling has a very long history. I don't know how the supremes might end up voting on all this, if it ever gets there but I'm no legal eagle and you may be completely right that that isn't the issue.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 08:41 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
and who needs to excuse Sterling? Should we all list our private sins and stand ready to be judged by the public? Do we put all our **** on the public chopping block?


Well said and unlike Firefly most of us could not have picked up that first rock to stone the sinner.

Hell without Firefly who is without sin to throw the first rock we would never have the fun of group stoning anyone to death.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 08:54 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Do any of those things excuse Donald Sterling's racist attitudes, or yours?
His attitudes r no less valid than yours.
He needs no more "excuse" than u do.
He has NO DUTY to conform his opinions to yours. No one does.





David
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 09:02 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
He has NO DUTY to conform his opinions to yours. No one does.
the freedom haters agree, they say he can think what ever he wants, so long as he never tells anyone if he happens to hold the "wrong" opinions. They justify this by claiming that bad ideas are dangerous, they are like a virus, and the collective has the right to prevent them from spreading. This is where fear has gotten us, many are ready to run over free will and the freedom of all in their attempt to gain "SAFETY!" for themselves. They also I might add make it very clear that they dont believe in people.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 09:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
We can turn it around and to the same thing to them; I have done so.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 11:12 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Should we all list our private sins and stand ready to be judged by the public

In Sterling's case, these sins haven't all been private. His racial discrimination, in who he would rent housing to, certainly wasn't private, nor were his offensive remarks about that, and he paid a settlement of over $2 million for one of those cases. His bigotry, and knowledge of it, really isn't anything new.

But this time, for whatever reason, his more recent remarks really struck a nerve, particularly with players and prominent former players, and they began weighing in fairly fast, with their demands about how they wanted the NBA to respond. So the players, through the players union, definitely had input into the decision about what to do about Sterling. And the NBA players, I think, are about 80% black. This situation gave them the opportunity to flex some influence in an area of the NBA they generally aren't involved in, and they took it. If they could finally help get rid of this known-to-be bigoted owner, they were pushing for it, and demanding it.

And the corporate sponsors also reacted immediately, and began withdrawing support.

The media had a juicy story with a leaked phone conversation, and later interview, with a girlfriend that had all the elements--sex, money, power, race, professional sports, etc.--to make for a flurry of talk and airtime, but I didn't hear people screaming for Sterling's head. There was no media driven campaign I saw to oust him. And the media interest in this whole business already seems on the wane, other than some continuing gossip about the girlfriend, and interest in the legal logistics and how those might play out.

And the public? I don't know that many people really care about this elderly billionaire team owner, or what happens to him in terms of his ownership. He's not a sympathetic figure, and he is bigoted, but I don't see people getting worked up about him one way or the other. Sterling's also not Paula Deen--she at least had fans, he doesn't seem to. Few, for instance, seem particularly upset that the NBA has already banned him for life.

So I see no public mobs, or media campaign, going after him. I mainly see Sterling as being judged by the NBA, because of how his remarks affected them, their image, their business and financial interests, their ability to keep the sport and players functioning, and how he could continue to affect them in the future, if they don't get him out, and force him to sever his ownership ties to them. It's essentially an internal problem for the NBA. The media and the public are mainly outside observers watching it unfold, and it remains to be seen how long they will remain interested.

And the somewhat murky world of professional sports and team ownerships seems to have its own rule book, and procedures, and legalities that most of us know next to nothing about, and generally aren't interested in. Owning a franchise isn't like owning a private business, and the NBA has to juggle interests other than Donald Sterling, and interests more important to them than just Donald Sterling. Bigotry isn't going to be solved by getting this one owner out, and everyone knows that, but the NBA's problems, stemming from the release of his remarks, could mushroom if they don't try to get him out and disconnected from them.

The worst that will happen to Sterling, if he's forced to sell, is that he'll owe a whopping capital gains tax because his asset has so grossly increased in value. And that's a main reason there aren't many hearts weeping for him.





firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 11:33 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
He has NO DUTY to conform his opinions to yours. No one does.

That's true.

Did I ever say his opinions had to conform to mine?

I personally don't care what opinions Donald Sterling holds on anything.

Nor am I the one taking any action against him, or even advocating any action against him. I'm simply watching this unfold and trying to understand why the NBA has reacted the way it has, and the complex legalities that apply in this situation. But I have no great interest in the outcome one way or the other. I don't even follow professional basketball.



 

Related Topics

Should cheerleading be a sport? - Discussion by joefromchicago
Are You Ready For Fantasy Baseball - 2009? - Discussion by realjohnboy
tennis grip - Question by madalina
How much faster could Usain Bolt have gone? - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Sochi Olympics a Resounding Success - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Donald Sterling
  3. » Page 21
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 1.45 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 05:41:38