Some facts about iraq and saddam

Don't backpeddle on me now Sgt. Rock....you'll lose my grudging respect

McGentrix opines, "I don't recall the US supporting N. Korea or Iran."

Of course you don't. You can't recall what you never learned.

Try doing just a little reading on the USA's relationship with Iran during the Shah's bloody tenure in power.

Psssssst, I'll even give you a heads up. We reinstalled him in the 1950's against the wishes of the Iranian people.

Do you really want to be this condescending Infowarrior? I have generally let your little ignorant comments slide because I figured you didn't know any better. But, if this is how you want to play, then so be it.

If you care to read my post once again McGentrix you will see that it is in no way defending or justifying saddam or his actions. The bastard was pure looney, even more than bush. What I have stated there is the level of some peoples in their ignorance that are evident from their posts. There is more to whats been happening in iraq for the past 30 years than what your governments been telling you, and I have tried to clarify some of those points. As to foreign policy requiring that some things that were done had to be I havve just one thing to say. If you associate with criminals what does it tell about you. If a country supports a tyrant like saddam how can it go around bossing the world and giving lessons in human rights and touting its war on terror. It just seems a war on "the other terrorists". If they are your terrorists then its ok, is that the logic. Also I am sure that not many of you know that it was the US government and CIA that made the taliban and the al-qaeda what it was. They were ordinary people from arab countries before they got the cia training in afghanistan, they became freedom fighters when they were fighting the russians, but once they started attacking american interests they became terrorists right? Between the end of the afghan jihad and now nothing has changed about the al-qaida, they were anti-imperialist then, as they are now, they were as fanatic then as they were now, the only thing thats ever changed is their target, and theatre of operations. It was just the commies in afghanistan back then, it is all the "infidels" all over the world today.

Like I said it was the west that made saddam, taliban, the al-qaide, and god knows who else thats lurking right around the corner ready to strike......

If you understand as you say you do, then you understand the need in the past to stop communism and the spread of Russia. You probably also understand that sometimes countries ally themselves with small bad guys to thwart big bad guys, right?

After the Iranian revolution and the take over of Iran by fundamentalist Muslims who instituted Sharia law, Iran became a threat to the United states. Surely I do not need to remind you of the rhetoric coming from Tehran, do I? Our support of Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war was necessary to keep Iran, who was receiving support from Russia, from taking over much of the Middle East. Just as our backing of the afghani fighters resisting Russia.

Now, you are right, they have shifted there targets and are now a threat to the US. It is our responsibility to keep them in check.

Did we create Saddam, Al-Queda, etc? You bet, but what are the alternatives?

Of course there never is a better way, is there? I wish you could enefit from hindsite.... did you know that the cold war could have been ended after the cuban missile crises. The whole world came to such a brink in those days that both sides were more then willing to disengage. If only kenneddy hadnt been assasinated, and kruschev would have been as courageus as gorbachov.

But of course the menace of communism, yes I forgot. A CIA/KGB operation in Turkey during the 70's and the US backed coup in 1980 has cost my country 20.000 of its brightest and youngest so don't you dare tell me about communism and the cold war. What sacrifice have you had to make.... we were the front line of wests defence against communism, we sufferred the cold war, you just get to talk about it. There was a time when we were spending over 30% of our GDP for defense, oh yeah lets not forget americas token appreciation, you did sell/send us all your obsolete military equipment, I wonder how many young people in Turkey, Greece and other vanguard countries had to sacrifice a better life to stop the menace.

"I have generally let your little ignorant comments slide....." McGentrix

ROFLMAO!!! How magnanimous of you.

Considering that all Info did was point out a fact you had proclaimed you were unaware of (the US led coup of the democratically elected prime minister in Iran, and his replacement by the Shah) I don't see where you ahev any reason to complain.

We could play the "what if..." game all day and accomplish nothing.

As someone who has seen it, I would think that you would know why somethings work the way they do. Obviously it was important for your government to defend itself from communism. as one of the few democracies in the region, Turkey has long stood as a beacon of what can be in the middle east.

Do you feel that your country would be better off now had it just turned belly up to the aggressions of communism?

McGEntrix, you don't know a great deal about Turkish political or social history in the later twentieth century, do you?

oh also if you all want to read about nato's (west's) valiant cold war struggle just go to google and search these key words: "P2 NATO" "OPERATION STAYBEHIND" "GLADIO" and just follow from there.........

the alternative wasn't surrendering.... it was doing what america had been doing during the whole of the cold war.... growing fat and rich selling everyone else the fear of the commies along with the guns to protect themselves. That was the only reason why the US tried to protract it as long as it could, so that it could keep on being a super power. That's why it needs its war on terror, it is the only way that it can remain relevant in the theater of worlds affairs.... America needs an enemy to remain strong, if it werent the islamic fundementalists it could easily be someone else

hobitbob:

I think the main difference between McGentrix, and you and me, as well as the rest of the forum is, we don't have 12 to 16 hours a day to play on able2know.

We have lives.

That's pretty funny. You were trying to be funny, right?

"America needs an enemy to remain strong, if it werent the islamic fundementalists it could easily be someone else." yilmaz101

Politicians, especially Bush and the American neocons, are quite adroit at using nationalism as a tool to manipulate the masses.

Country music, too.

Excuses
The Right Wing either is ignorant of History or choses to ignore it.

America is not a Democracy and it's Military along with the CIA have overthrown elected Democracies of other Nations and/or have assisted directly &/or indirectly, in installing Right Wing Dictatorships. Aslo, the US supports nations that are brutal Dictatorships right now.

Chile
Iran
Hondorous
Nicarqua
Philipines
Haiti
The Congo
Greece
Uzbekistan
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Azerbaijan
Indonesia

The US is trying to do this in a Latin American country at this time.

Guess which one?

Read about the CIA here:


CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy).

It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator.


http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html

while I generally agree I really don't understand why you put Greece on list of countries with brutal dictatorship??

Greece had a junta between 67-74. Just do a google search for "sheepskin nato greece" and you should find some info.....

And tarantulas I was dead serious on that bit....

I know that yilmaz, pistoff said, quote, "US supports nations that are brutal dictatorships NOW" and then started counting - I would disagree about Egypt as well - however, it may be that pistoff included both those that had dictatorships before and now, but from his sentence above seems like he named those that are such NOW.