They Wanted Us to Feel as Though We Were Women

Bigotry seems to run deep in the American psyche.

You might have a point, e-brown. I'm going to think about it.

hobitbob, are you saying that the suspension was because of the subject and not how you discussed it?

kickycan, I have been trying to become more activist again (I was very politically active in my long-ago youth...), and one thing I did before the war started was print out photos of ordinary Iraqis from a site set up for that purpose. I found the link referred to here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=112112

But it doesn't seem to be operational any more. At any rate, it was enormously affecting... photo upon photo of just regular, smiling, normal Iraqis. The "normal" part, especially. They weren't scowling ragheads in the desert, they weren't ciphers swathed in burkhas. It was not immediately apparent that they weren't Americans. Friendly, open faces, reasonably prosperous surroundings that could easily be an American suburb, TV's, nice refrigerators, whatever hallmark of civilization you'd like, they had it.

I've thought about those pictures a lot, how removed they are from what we see on the news. It's like if the only thing that another civilization had seen of us were the Los Angeles riots.

No, it was becasue I lost my temper when confronted with bigotry, and people who were happy at their small-mindedness.

Ah.

Trying to find those pictures or some new ones, found this article about it:

http://www.nypress.com/print.cfm?content_id=7912

A common human problem, no?

Okay, I've thought about it, and e-brown, you are right about one thing. I, and most Americans, don't know **** about the Arab nation's culture. I was basing what I said on some random news items and what I saw on this ABC show.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/saudi_teachers021210.html

I wasn't talking about Iraq, specifically. The teaching of hatred is happening somewhere, but I have no idea how far-reaching it is, or how institutionalized it is, and Soz's article gave me a little more insight into things. I'm sure a lot of the regular citizens of most arab countries are somewhat uninformed, and probably couldn't really give a **** either way about the citizens of the U.S. . . . just like most people here in America. They are probably just trying to live their lives.

But, it seems to me that there is at least some racism and hatred in parts of the Arab nation that is being taught in schools. That's what I was referring to.

E-brown, my comment was blurted out hastily though, and I can see how you'd react like you did. I'm sorry if I offended you, and that statement I made was too general.

I just read the New Yorker article on this.
I'm truly shocked.

I think Iraq is better off for not having Saddam in charge (have very mixed feelings about the attack on Iraq), but I just realized that I expect better of Americans. Realizing that this behaviour goes back to Afghanistan, at least, and that it was documented. Wow. I'm just shocked.

The New Yorker article is especially informative because they obtained Major General Taguba's report, which was an internal one not meant for release.

Is there a link to that one on the thread? or - do you have to subscribe?

Yep, but here it is again: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Here is the report in PDF:

Investigation of 800 MP Brigade

Thank you both.

Just wanted to say that at the time that I wrote this thread, I was woefully ignorant of the scope of what happened at the prison. As the story developed, and as I learned more about it, I certainly could understand the attitude of the Iraqi prisoner. As a corollary, I have posted another thread which delves into why the particular form of abuse that was meted out in Abu Gharib is potentially so damaging to the credibility of the US:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24335

Thank you for the link to the New Yorker CDKvery informative.

Phoenix none of us knew the depth and breath of this horror when you first posted this thread.

JoanneD, have you read the original article Phoenix linked? Not just the excerpts posted.

I have now Betheh and I will repeat what I stated earlier in the thread. This is not news, US soldiers have engaged in this type of behavior toward other men and women when they were in total and loosely supervise control since I was a young woman working for the Navy in 1968. The Marine Brig at MCRD in San Diego has a history going way back about this kind of hideous behavior. MCRD drill sergeants marching trainees into San Diego bay and watching them drown because they could they had that kind of control. Sure they were punished after the fact but it happened in the 1950s. What kind of ignorant military commanders refuse to admit what they know has happened? Why do they not admit what has happened in the past as well as the present?

The American military police and other individuals US civilian operatives when given complete authority over imprisoned humans be they fellow service men and women or other prisoners have engaged in brutal behavior.

I agree that sexual torture and humiliation might be more difficult than physical torture. But all of it is horrible.

What astounds me is that everyone is so surprised. Am I the only one who remembers. At the time I was first made aware that these kinds of things go on I just a lowly civilian with a top secret clearance. Where are all the men who served in Vietnam and other wars that read the same reports and saw the same picture I did?

Joanne- Do you recall the scandal at Parris Island some decades ago? All I can remember was that a number of recruits died because of the sadistic harshness of the training.

Yes I do Phoenix, I am glad I am not alone in accepting that this current incident is an anomaly.

Joanne-Found it!

http://expage.com/plt71