19
   

The Pitfalls of Marrying an American Woman.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:28 pm
@panzade,
Good observation, except racism in the south can be hidden or in the open.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:37 pm
@panzade,
Welcome to the 60 club.

So, we have competing opinions.

Doesn't make either wrong or right.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, of course you're right.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:56 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yes, well...I've never been ashamed to either agree with you or disagree with you.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:04 pm
My experience of racism in the North is that it's not always behind any PC smoke screen. Many northerners are sometimes overtly racist, they just don't talk about if there are black people around.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn asked:
Quote:
What's your personal experience as respects living in the North and the South, and bigotry.?


Well, I know you weren't asking this of me personally, so excuse me if I'm intruding, but I'll give it a go:

I was born in San Antonio Texas of two born and raised Texan, southern Baptist parents. I will forever be grateful that my father was transferred by the corporation for which he worked to Buffalo, New York when I was one year old. When I was three years old, he was transferred to the corporate headquarters in Manhattan and so they moved us to New Jersey - within commuting distance of New York City. This made the difference for me in my lifetime between me being a little white girl attending segregated schools in Texas to having the privilege of attending school with all races and ethnicities in New Jersey before segregation was outlawed and integration was enforced in the south. Our Southern Baptist church in NJ was also racially integrated by people who really believed the old adage, 'Love your neighbor as yourself- I never heard race enter into it by anyone I went to school or church with. Thus, I grew up surrounded by and appreciating diversity and believing (as I was taught in school and in church and saw enacted in my actual every-day life) that 'all men are created equal' and should be treated as such and I was lucky enough to live in a place where the laws reflected that belief and the people around me acted as if they believed that instead of supporting laws and attitudes that reinforced the opposite.

We did return to Texas every summer to visit the kinfolk. This was the only time I heard the n-word spoken as a matter of course - to the point that I had to have it explained to me by my father what it meant and why it was not good to say it and to try to understand the ignorance of those who would say such a word- 'they didn't know any better because they were raised that way.' What I couldn't understand is why HE and my mother knew better even though they were raised that way too. I understood later that they had no need within themselves to look down on others - despite having been raised in a place where it was legally and socially acceptable to do so.

And it wasn't only the 'n-word' I learned down south. It was also the term 'dirty Mexican' when I dared to ask a Mexican woman in Texas directions in front of my cousin who admonished me for even thinking a 'dirty Mexican' would know anything or be able to answer any of my questions accurately. This young cousin was my age - and all I could think was 'God dang - that'd of been me if my father hadn't been transferred. Thank you Jesus for letting me grow up in New Jersey instead of Texas!'

I went to college in North Carolina - dated a black man and was refused service in a Pizza Hut down there. Having been raised in New Jersey, I had no idea why - I even said, 'We're all wearing shoes and shirts - what's the problem?!' The southerners in the group had to inform me that it was because we were being disapproved of because we were an interracial group of men and women. I went up and protested - telling them that discrimination was illegal. Didn't matter - we never did get served. This never happened to me north of the Mason-Dixon line - I've lived in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Maine....never had any problems. In Texas and North Carolina it was an entirely different story.

There's my personal experiences with prejudice and discrimination in the north vs. the south. My children are interracial. There are very few places in the south I would consider living without thinking long and hard and actually experiencing the vibe. The North is a different story for me...but you know - everyone has a different experience.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:43 pm
@aidan,
You can say that again.

I heard and experienced more racist/ethnic remarks in New Jersey than I've ever experienced in Texas.

On the occassions I visit New Jersey, I experience/hear the same racism from others. I can't even remember the last time I've heard it to 1% of that degree deep in the heart of Texas.

I lived in NJ from birth to around 19, and have lived in Texas since 1991.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:54 pm
@chai2,
Well, all I know is that all the black people I live and work with are happy to have been born and raised in the north during that time as opposed to the south. And the black students I work with often ask me why and how black people back then could have stayed down there where it was THE LAW for them to be discriminated against as opposed to moving north where it was THE LAW for them to be treated as equals - at least in public places.

I know as a white person, I feel lucky to have been raised in the north where I learned that BY LAW all people were to be treated equally. I can only imagine that's also how I would have felt as a little black girl being told that LEGALLY - I was less than - along with being treated as such by popular choice of the population- that I'd rather live somewhere that BY LAW I was entitled to be treated equally to my white peers.

I was born a southerner - but I couldn't have participated in and followed the socially and legally accepted mores of that place and time- so I'm glad I grew up somewhere where I didn't have to be and wasn't expected to act as a part of the oppressing majority group. That's my bottom line.
I'm also really happy I wasn't a white South African benefitting from apartheid.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:00 pm
@aidan,
You don't have to repeat yourself.

You said everyone has different experiences.

I was sharing mine.

I don't have any interest in "what all you know is"

My comments stand alone.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I have also lived in NYC , Midwest , and SE. My experience has defined my perception. I've also lived in 4 different countries. I'm married to a southerner and that has allowed me to gain a lot of insight. By being part of a southern family, I've gained access the inside scoop. Friends and family don't shield their thoughts from me. They consider me one of their own. You say I flew off the handle, yet you are the one resorting to childish name calling. My apologies in correcting you concerning Hispanic not being a race...you obviously took offense.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:12 pm
I didn't repeat myself. In my first post I spoke of my experiences and feelings. In my second post, I spoke of the experiences and feelings of the black people I live and work with.
I don't know - for some reason, I think they might have a clearer insight into the whole issue than I do....I know for SURE that the black people I work with have told me they they would NEVER live in states like Texas and Mississippi. Yeah - there's racism everywhere but I just tend to want to listen to and learn from the people who actually experience it and believe what they tell me. But again, sorry if I'm repeating myself.
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:01 pm
@aidan,
The black people you work with haven't lived in Texas.

I do.

I would think you would listen and learn from me, rather than someone who's never lived here.




panzade
 
  3  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:22 pm
Anytime someone tries to invalidate my opinion about my experience I just go...WTF??
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:30 pm
@panzade,
I go....LOL
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 09:35 pm
@chai2,
Yeah - well I listen and learn from the people in my own family who actually have lived there all their lives and have had their attitudes shaped by never having lived anywhere else. And maybe the black people I know who have never lived in Texas chose not to even venture near because they learned from the experience of people like Mr. Byrd. I don't recall any black men being chained to the back of anyone's truck and dragged to death down any roads in New Jersey- WTF-LOL....yeah - let's just rewrite history and whitewash the bad or paint everything with the same racist brush. The fact of the matter is that the north outlawed segregation long before the south did and the north fought for the end of slavery while the southern states fought to preserve it as an institution. And that DOES speak to the attitudes of the people who lived there and supported those ideals and how comfortable they were/are with them. I'm just happy I grew up somewhere that wasn't segregated....sorry if that offends you.
I'm also happy I don't live in a state that puts innocent people to death disproportionately by race.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 01:16 am
@aidan,
Quote:
I'm also happy I don't live in a state that puts innocent people to death disproportionately by race.
Or I expect tortures them on the way out by way of poorly done executions. We learned how to kill people cleanly at least a 1000 years ago, why is this so hard to do today?
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 07:46 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

I don't recall any black men being chained to the back of anyone's truck and dragged to death down any roads in New Jersey


No, they just used the Meadowlands and Pine Barrens to dump the tortured bodies. Rolling Eyes

BTW, you do realize that it's 2014 and not 1968, don't you?

Why, we let the coloreds go to the same schools and drink from the same water fountains and everything now mostly.

I hear tell some of them have even taken up doctorin' and lawyerin' and such, despite warnings from Willie.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 10:39 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

I don't recall any black men being chained to the back of anyone's truck and dragged to death down any roads in New Jersey



Well, I will have to admit this isn't a black man. She was a white woman so I guess that doesn't count....




NJ Man Now On Trial For Murder After Dragging Girlfriend Behind Pickup Truck
April 28, 2014 5:05 PM

READING, Pa. (AP) — A New Jersey man already serving a prison sentence for dragging his girlfriend behind his pickup truck is now on trial for murder in her death from injuries police say resulted from the same incident.
Michael Morrone is charged with third-degree murder in the death of Christine McGhee, who was left in a vegetative state after she was dragged across a Kutztown University parking lot in December 2008.
Morrone, of Marlton, N.J., was convicted in 2010 of aggravated assault and related charges and is currently serving a five- to 20-year prison sentence.
He was charged with murder after the Berks County coroner determined McGhee, of Warminster, Bucks County, died on March 2012 of brain injuries from the incident over three years earlier.
Morrone’s trial got underway Monday in Berks County.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 11:56 am
Bruins issue statement condemning racism towards P.K. Subban after Game 1
Is there no more virulent, sublimated racism than the Southie pocket of Boston?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 11:20 pm
@panzade,
Yes, well...me either.

Your point?
0 Replies
 
 

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