Who Dares Wins

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Transcript: Who dares wins
April 25, 2004
Reporter: Ross Coulthart, Sunday
Producer: Nick Farrow

A story of unsung heroes.

INTRO ?- RICHARD CARLETON: For Australians, today is a day to reflect and to remember, but also to honour those who fought and died in battle. It's time also to spare a thought for the men and women still fighting, still serving overseas. Now, with that in mind, tonight a story of unsung heroes, a dangerous mission behind enemy lines ?- Australian SAS troops under fire. Now, these operations are usually kept secret. I mean, the SAS is, by its very nature, a covert force. But tonight in this special report, Ross Coulthart, from the Sunday program, meets the men from Operation Anaconda, the commandos who dare and win.

STORY ?- AMERICAN SOLDIER: Today is a day for war. Soon the coalition of nations will send forth troops to find those who seek terror over peace.

ROSS COULTHART: Afghanistan 2002, six months after September 11.

AMERICAN SOLDIER: May all these helicopters soar as on the wings of an eagle.

ROSS COULTHART: And Australia is very much a part of the coalition of the willing. Was there ever a moment where you went, "What in God's name am I doing here?"

MARTIN WALLACE, SAS SIGNALMAN: Ah, no, no, you certainly realise you're there for love, not money. But I wouldn't have wished it on anyone else, put it that way.

ROSS COULTHART: This is a rare insight into the SAS. Its commanders have let us meet Martin Wallace and to hear his story of one of the most hard-fought battles in Afghanistan, Operation Anaconda. It was a defining battle?

MARTIN WALLACE: Yeah, it was the first time we took it to the hardline al-Qa'ida, who weren't prepared to flee or run and hide in Pakistan. These guys were definitely committed and they were there to fight to the death, and we accommodated them, yeah.

LT COL ROWAN TINK, SAS COMMANDER: We learnt two or three days into Operation Anaconda that the al-Qa'ida had moved their families and children out of the valley to safer areas towards the Pakistan boarder.

ROSS COULTHART: So they were getting ready for a fight.

ROWAN TINK: There was no doubt that they were prepared to fight.

ROSS COULTHART: And to fight hard. Anaconda was meant to be a two-day operation to take out a major al-Qa'ida stronghold. But very quickly, it went very wrong. Rowan Tink was the SAS commander in Afghanistan.

ROWAN TINK: They were engaged by mortars, RPGs, heavy machine-guns, light machine-guns ?- basically everything that was available in the armoury. We later learnt that they'd actually landed and moved into the vicinity of the al-Qa'ida command post.

MARTIN WALLACE: We landed in the middle of a valley and then, off to my right shoulder, I noticed a flash and I recognised it as danger, so we started running for cover. There was an RPG round that was fired at us ...

ROSS COULTHART: That's a rocket-propelled grenade ...

MARTIN WALLACE: Correct, yeah, from about 300m away. The round hit the ground and slid through the mud, basically, chasing us up the hill as we ran from it. It just lay there steaming in the ground as we scrambled for cover.

ROSS COULTHART: Wallace and another Australian were part of an 82-man team that was ambushed.

MARTIN WALLACE: I was just lying there watching, them out of the corner of my eye, and about five or six of them disappeared in a puff of grey smoke. It was basically a direct hit on the American mortar from the al-Qa'ida mortar.

ROSS COULTHART: How badly injured were those men?

MARTIN WALLACE: We had guys with chest injuries, there was open fractures, basically fragmentation wounds, some of them over, you know, their entire bodies.

ROWAN TINK: He saw that there was a need there to go out and pull some of these guys to safety and dress their wounds and he put himself in harm's way. Under fire, moved out, collected some of these wounded and dragged them back into safety in this ditch that they were in.

ROSS COULTHART: In the panic of the opening firefight, the American soldiers had dropped their backpacks. The Australians had kept theirs.

MARTIN WALLACE: We didn't have as far to go for cover, so I didn't bother dropping my pack, just ran for cover. As a result, I maintained my communications capability.

ROSS COULTHART: If you hadn't been able to call in air support, what would have happened?

MARTIN WALLACE: I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you today.

ROSS COULTHART: Tell me about that conversation you had when you first got the radio up and working?

MARTIN WALLACE: I asked Clint if he wanted me to establish communications. He said yep, so I ripped out my antenna. First call, I got back into our headquarters at Bagram and told them we were in a bit of a ****-fight. I was later told by the young fellow who was on the radio one of the other officers behind was asking what I meant by a '****-fight'.

ROSS COULTHART: With 30 Americans injured, Wallace called in an air strike on the al-Qa'ida position. A B-52 bomber was brought in.

MARTIN WALLACE: I was lying on my back, watching the B-52 come overhead, and you could see the bomb bay doors open and the bombs as they started to fall. You're just hoping that they're going to be on target and not on your position. When you're dropping things from 30,000 feet and they're not laser-guided then, yeah, there's definitely a recipe for disaster.

ROSS COULTHART: And what happened when they did hit?

MARTIN WALLACE: When they hit, you get the initial shock wave, which moves both you and the earth, and then you get the noise that follows and then all the shrapnel comes sniffling in overhead.

ROSS COULTHART: But even after that, were there still al-Qa'ida fighting? Were there still people shooting at you?

MARTIN WALLACE: Yeah, certainly. I think it took them a little bit to regroup, maybe 15 or 20 minutes, but then they started putting more mortar rounds and small arms fire down into us. I was just thinking of how I'm going to get out of here and how I'm not going to bloody die in this valley.

ROSS COULTHART: Did you have your doubts?

MARTIN WALLACE: Yeah, certainly. I thought we were done for on many occasions during the day, yeah.

ROSS COULTHART: Apache attack helicopters were called in to try and save the men on the ground.

MARTIN WALLACE: The entire hillside basically opened up with small arms fire and that was the last we saw of the Apaches.

ROSS COULTHART: Finally, 18 hours after the battle began, help arrived. Guided by Wallace, the Americans sent in an AC-130 gun ship, allowing helicopters to rescue the men and return them to their base. But Operation Anaconda was far from over.

TROOPER JOHN, SAS: Quite a few of us are Queenslanders and had never seen snow before until we went to Afghanistan. And the novelty wore off after about five minutes.

ROSS COULTHART: On day two, fog left predator surveillance planes all but useless. On a rugged Afghani mountainside, a platoon of US troops were trapped and under attack after their chopper had crashed. From a neighbouring ridge, an SAS squad watched the disaster unfold.

LT GENERAL FRANK HAGENBECK, COALITION COMMANDER: You had to have someone there on the ground that could see and hear and smell and pick up the sense of the battlefield, of what was going on, and we were very much dependent upon the Aussies, certainly in that part of the battlefield.

ROSS COULTHART: Lieutenant General Hagenbeck commanded the coalition forces in Afghanistan.

FRANK HAGENBECK: I would tell you, I would not have wanted to do that operation without the Australian SAS folks on that ridge slide. I mean, they made it happen that day.

ROSS COULTHART: The Australians coordinated the coalition attack and the eventual rescue operation. Seven Americans lost their lives, but the rest were in no doubt why they got out alive.

TROOPER JOHN: It was almost embarrassing to the point where the Americans were, you know, so glad of our help. You know, may go to a meal line at a mess ?- there might be 100 people in front of you, all Americans ?- and all of a sudden they'd step aside, maybe even applaud, push you to the front of the line. I think we were taken a bit aback by it and a bit embarrassed.

ROSS COULTHART: The Australian SAS earned the admiration of the Americans in Afghanistan, but it was in Iraq where their role would be pivotal. With the bulk of the coalition forces advancing from the south, it fell upon the SAS to accept the difficult and dangerous task of helping to secure the west of the country. Iraq's western desert and the SAS have infiltrated the country. As soon as the order to invade was given, these elite Australian troops were among the first to answer the call.

MAJOR PAUL: It came from the PM and also in conjunction with the President of the US. I indicated to the boss that we were ready to go and he said, "You have a green light", and off we went. I replied, "No worries, boss, who dares wins, we'll see you when it's all over."

ROSS COULTHART: We know him only as Major Paul, the man who led 80 SAS troops on their mission to secure key strategic sites in the deserts of western Iraq.

MAJOR PAUL: We were invading a country which hadn't been done since Gallipoli for Australia, and, you know, the adrenaline was very high.

ROSS COULTHART: Within an hour, the SAS were under enemy fire.

CAPTAIN QUENTIN, SAS: They were operating in sports utility vehicles with large machine-guns mounted in the rear tray, and on observing our location, they deployed dismounts, 8-10 in each vehicle, to the left or right of the vehicles and began engaging us with heavy machine-gun fire, small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades.

ROSS COULTHART: One soldier would later earn a bravery medal using shoulder-launched missiles to destroy Iraqi vehicles.

CAPTAIN QUENTIN: Both sides in this particular instance actually stopped shooting to watch this rocket, this javelin cruise through the air, and that actually engaged a moving vehicle at high speeds, moving away from us and I think that changed the battlefield.

TROOPER JOHN: It was a little bit daunting seeing so many enemy coming towards us, but when we saw how effective our weapons systems were in neutralising their vehicles, and you could actually physically see the shock on the enemy's faces.

ROSS COULTHART: One of the first tasks for the SAS was securing this heavily guarded cement factory, vital for rebuilding Iraq. Mindful of the civilian casualties that would result from an all-out attack, the Australians came up with a simple but ingenious plan.

MAJOR PAUL: We requested that an aircraft, an F-14, come and do a low fly in order to break the sound barrier. The effect of this was a sonic boom, a massive explosion. We actually thought it had detonated other munitions inside the facility. It wasn't the case. It had broken several windows. And the result was that people came running out with their arms up.

ROSS COULTHART: Where did you get that idea from?

MAJOR PAUL: I remember, I think before I joined the army, with the Australian Air Force broke the sound barrier by mistake and broke a lot of greenhouses in SA.

ROSS COULTHART: The SAS would then go on to take the Al Asad Military Air Base, capturing 57 warplanes and finding nearly eight million kilograms of explosives. Within days of crossing the border, the SAS and their coalition counterparts had secured the entire western desert.

FRANK HAGENBECK: The Australian SAS displayed those kinds of things that make them the elite, in my view, of small-unit infantrymen throughout the world. And that's an autonomy, independence, tenacity that they will never ever be defeated.

ROSS COULTHART: Is it a concern in your mind that, because of Australia's high-profile role in essentially an invasion of a Middle Eastern country to topple Saddam Hussein ?- have we exposed ourself more to the possibilities of terrorism on Australian soil, or against Australian citizens overseas?

LT COL RICK, SAS: I'm not in a position to comment on that, but some intelligence person might.

ROSS COULTHART: I suppose it matters to the extent that you're the commanding officer of the regiment that would have to deal with it in the event of a terrorist attack. Is that something that factors into your thinking?

LT COL RICK: We remain prepared to respond to a wide range of scenarios that might threaten Australia's national security and that's our business, that's what we're here to do. We remain highly trained and ready to do that.

ROSS COULTHART: The SAS was victorious in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the war against terror continues and inevitably, our elite Australian troops will face more battles, more battles like Operation Anaconda. The obvious question is ?- who won?

MARTIN WALLACE: Well, with this particular battle, we won. It took us a little bit longer than expected, but in the larger overall global war against terror, I'd say it's still inconclusive and there's a lot of work yet to be done, a lot of unfinished business.

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I thought i would post the chat transcript as well for these that are interested.

Chat transcript: Who dares wins
April 25, 2004
Reporter: Ross Coulthart, Sunday
Producer: Nick Farrow

A story of unsung heroes.

Interviewer: ninemsn in association with 60 Minutes presents a live interview with Lt Col Rowan Tink. Lt Col Tink, welcome to the 60 Minutes live online chat room, thank you for joining us tonight, to talk about such an important issue, on such an important day in Australian history.

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: It's my pleasure to be here.

Interviewer: Lt Col, we will go directly to the questions from our chat guests.

Guest_Jon asks: What made you decide to join the armed services?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Essentially my father decided to leave the land when I was 15 years of age and I wanted to partake in an adventurous form of life if I couldn't continue farming and grazing.

Guest_itsjustme asks: How did you come to be an SAS officer and was the training a difficult task to get by?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I was asked to undertake an SAS selection course in 1980 and that was an extremely demanding few weeks, after which I was selected and had to return in November, 1980, on posting to SAS. I then did two years in SAS before being posted to the US Navy Seals in California.

Guest_Clint asks: What makes the Australian SAS soldier so good?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I would have to say the level of training, their national character and particularly their age, in that the average age of an SAS soldier is significantly older than their regular army counterparts. I would have to say on top of that, an SAS soldier strives to normally be the best at his profession, that being the profession of arms.

Guest_Nicole asks: What areas have you visited during your time with the SAS?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I'd have to say many different countries of the world in the SAS, but also with foreign forces like the US Navy Seals. Countries such as Afghanistan, Korea and Alaska have been the most fascinating countries in the world in many respects,

Guest_hello1234 asks: Why are the identities of the SAS kept private?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: The main reason for maintaining security is that these soldiers can be sent on missions around the world and remain covert because there's numerous world intelligence agencies that are seeking to identify special forces people from all countries and once they're identified they can be targeted. In my case, I'm a more senior officer and it was determined my identity would be released when I was awarded the US Military Bronze Star for my part in the Afghanistan operations.

Guest_tommy asks: Are there any female SAS and if no, why not?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: No there are not any females serving in the SAS in a combat role. There are females serving in operational support roles and examples of that, again, I had a number of women in my task group that were supporting our operations in Afghanistan, but they were in a third country.

Questioner: Why can't women serve in SAS?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I would have to say at the moment that it is a government policy that precludes women from serving within SAS in a combat role.

Guest_Chiko asks: How old do you have to be to get into the SAS?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: To be selected in SAS you need to be between the ages of 19 and 30 years and an Australian citizen. There are a number of other qualifications, which include the need to pass in year nine maths and English and there's quite a few other physical tests and training you would need to do over approx six months before you would be posted to a special forces unit. A special forces unit is either SAS or 4 RAR (Commando). For more information, you can call 131901 or visit your local army, navy and airforce careers reference centre. Finally, for further information you can also log on to http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/campaign/specialforces/

Guest_freddie asks: Which other country's elite force do you have most respect for?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: In Afghanistan I worked with special forces from 11 other countries, which included US, UK, NZ, Canada, Denmark, Germany, to name a few, and I found all of them to be very professional in their own right. Many of them specialise in specific areas and adopt their own world-best practices. I would have to say I respect all of them in different fields.

Guest_ladyhawke asks: Today is a special day; when your own children or your grandchildren ask you the meaning of Anzac, what will you tell them?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Probably most of all that it signifies to me one's need to sacrifice for the greater benefit of our countrymen. It's a time when you're required to think of others first and their wellbeing as part of whatever team we're in.

Guest_Rachael asks: Did you get to march this morning? How does it feel to be marching, knowing what you have contributed to Australia?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Yes I did march this morning and the thing that always hits me hardest in the chest is seeing all the support along the sides of the streets, the Australians that have turned out to give us a cheer and support us along; and I found in Afghanistan the only real time I saw our guys with tears in their eyes was when they were reading the thousands of well wishes they got from the public at home. I believe the national support for the soldiers is so very important for soldiers serving overseas and in my case I was extremely grateful for those well wishers who took the time out to send messages to us giving us their support.

Guest_ellen asks: Do you think enough is being done to keep Anzac Day alive?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I believe that it is the Australian population that is keeping Anzac Day alive and will make it thrive in the future. I was immensely moved by the spirit of the men, women and children that attend Anzac Cove today in spite of the terrorist threat they were advised about. It is these young men, women and children that will keep Anzac Day alive, not money, not government ?- and indeed one day it may be a day of greater significance to the Australian population.

Guest_McGoughWasRobbed asks: Rowan, what attributes do you need to become a member of the SAS?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: There are many attributes that are sought on a selection process. But those that come most to my mind would be dedication, a resolve to hang in there in the face of all odds, the desire to be a team player and look after other members of the team and a desire to be the best you can possibly be and finally, a sense of humour in adversity is a must.

Guest_Don asks: How do you find being in the SAS affects your family life?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: It is very demanding on family and it requires a partner who has an immense understanding of what you are required to do, particularly during absences, and a partner who is able to operate independently when you're not there. Clearly they have to be special people. In terms of my children, and I have three, every posting we have been on has created wonderful opportunities for them to learn and meet other Australians and indeed other people around the world.

Guest_Lita asks: Do any of your children speak of a career in the army?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I would have to say no. I guess in many ways I have been conscious of the fact I don't influence them inappropriately and therefore if they want to join the army, they will in their own time albeit two of my children are at uni, so they may be unlikely to go that way. Having said that, they are still very supportive of my career and the military.

Guest_Mike asks: Have you ever been required/ordered to do something "not so nice" while on duty? No specifics. Do morals come into it?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Certainly I have and I've always stood by my principles and advised that person of my position, if it wasn't already known. Having said that, I have never been ordered to undertake anything illegal, for an illegal command is not a lawful command.

Guest_Bel asks: What do you say to all those Australians that would give into terrorism, rather than stand up against them?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: One of the great things of a democracy is the freedom of choice and those choices include the right to take any position on an issue such as this. Personally I would hope and feel confident that most Australians would resist terrorism and not give into it at any stage and I think a classic case of this is the massive attendance of young Australians that attend the Gallipoli service today.

Guest_Tom_Bishop asks: Are there jobs in the special services that do not involve being fit/in action?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Yes, there certainly are. There are a wide range of combat support roles that people can be employed in while serving in special forces. In these jobs, men and women are not required to undertake special forces selection courses and therefore they can be posted to a special forces unit.

Guest_Jarrad asks: What's the basic gear the SAS take with them when they carry out operations?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: On each mission that an SAS soldier undertakes he will carry equipment which is specific to that mission and tasks. This may be in the form of special weapons, special clothing, special vehicles, etc. So at the end of the day there's a small amount of personal equipment which would be carried by a soldier on most missions.

Guest_Rachael asks: When you are on a mission, what do you carry for food?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I normally carry an issue ration pack, which is supported by a small number of additional condiments. Such things as energy bars and special foods are also possibilities, however they normally run out after a short time in the field.

Guest_Tom asks: Do members in the special forces receive more extensive pay and benefits then someone in the regular army?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Yes they do, they receive special action force allowances, which are particularly attractive and provide some recompense for the ability and skills that each soldier possesses.

Guest_Khaki asks: Do you know what level of retention is the regiment achieving? Are outgoing members outnumbering incoming troopers?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: At this moment as I'm no longer serving in SAS I cannot answer that question with utmost certainty. But I am aware that some soldiers have resigned on returning from Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I would be confident that the selection process will be successful in reconstituting those losses. Each soldier takes anywhere up to five years to train and therefore the allowances are an important part of attempting to get the soldiers to remain within the unit. The commanding officer and his staff also pay particular attention to retention measures to ensure their soldiers and families are happy in the service.

Guest_daxraac asks: Sir, if you could ask one thing from our government to enable you and your digs to do better, what would it be?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Like many soldiers I have personal opinions that I would love to share with the wider audience. But in this particular case I would sincerely state that the government has equipped our special forces very well over the last few years.

Guest_tommy asks: What has been the highest point of your career to date?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: Certainly leading the SAS forces during six months of combat in Afghanistan would rate with the highest achievement. However, I would also say that I have thoroughly enjoyed all of my postings, which included my time as commanding officer of the 51st Battalion in Cairns, my time serving with other foreign forces and the opportunities my family and I have experienced while living in many cities of Australia and a couple across the world.

Guest_Annie asks: What can an ordinary member of the public do to support you and your families?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: To continue doing what you're doing today, supporting the young men and women of the defence force in all of their duties and endeavours and remember that wherever they are deployed, they are responding to the wishes of their government and they're doing what they're told. At the end of the day, our men and women in the defence force are everyday Australians doing their best in their profession.

Interviewer: Lt. Col Tink, unfortunately we are out of time, we have an overwhelming amount of questions tonight, but we have been unable to ask them all, do you have any last thoughts you would like to share with the many users who have joined us tonight?

Lt. Col. Rowan Tink: I deeply wish to offer my sincere appreciation to all those Australians that have offered their support to me and my men while deployed in Afghanistan. My heartfelt gratitude and thanks and that goes out to not only Australians, but all the men and women of other countries who offered us their support.

Interviewer: Once again Lt Col Tink, thank you and good night. This concludes our live chat with Lt Col Rowan Tink, April 25, 2004. Produced by ninemsn.com.au in Sydney, Australia ninemsn.com.au ©2004

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