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The Myths of Iraq

 
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:19 am
This is an interesting opinion piece. The author seems to know what he's talking about.

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The country is in flames! Actually, most of the country is at peace and continues to rebuild. The fighting is restricted to a few areas, but this is where the reporters and cameras go. Construction and commerce do not make for dramatic news stories and so are rarely covered. The Iraqis who are causing all the commotion are the same ones who have been using their guns to threaten other Iraqis as well. Coalition attempts to deal with this are being condemned as oppressive to all Iraqis. But unless the warlords (Saddam followers wanting to regain power, or Islamic radical Shias who want the country run by clergy) can be defeated and disarmed, Iraq will never know peace. The coalition hoped this day of reckoning could be put off until the Iraqis held elections, and could do it themselves. The warlords were not willing to wait for that.

Americans are hated in Iraq! Not according to the polls that have been conducted, nor according to the experience of most Americans working in Iraq. But a lot of Iraqis, especially those who used to work for Saddam, or who want to set up an Islamic theocracy, don't like the Americans and their "alien" ideas about democracy and rule of law. If someone hates you, it's a good idea to find out why. But most Americans get their news from the mass media, which is more interested in "wow" than "why."

U.S. troops are fed up with the war and leaving in droves! New recruits, and people wanting to stay in are at record levels in the armed forces. This applies to reservists as well as active duty troops. The Department of Defense regularly releases data on recruiting and re-enlistments, and they have been up since before September 11, 2001. But since the war on terror began, the numbers have increased still more. The air force and navy are even conducting layoffs.

The Iraqi Governing Council is despised by most Iraqis! Any 25 Iraqi leaders would be despised by most of the population. The 25 members of the Iraqi Governing Council were selected by the coalition to help run things until elections could be held. Members were selected from all of the ethnic and religious groups in the country. Each member has a large constituency. But Iraq has lots of constituencies, including over a hundred tribes and dozens of religious leaders with large followings. The country has not allowed any party politics for over four decades. You need more than 25 members of a government to even begin to cover the demands of all the constituencies for representation. Even after the elections, Iraq will have more than 25 organized factions competing with each other.

The U.S. Army doesn't have enough troops to handle current combat operations! Although combat commanders feel that "too much ain't enough" when it comes to troops, they learn how to go with what they got. The last two weeks of violence in Iraq were suppressed with available combat troops, and more were called for in case the violence returned on a grander scale (an unlikely event, as more became known about who was behind the current attacks on Iraqis, foreign aid workers and coalition troops). For example, three battalions of marines dealing with Fallujah, and available troops were able to suppress the al Sadr militias within two weeks. Sending more troops won't help with the basic problem; gathering intelligence. That requires people who speak Arabic and have police experience. More American troops won't solve that problem, more trained Iraqi police will.

The effort in Iraq detracts from the war on terror! Arab countries are where al Qaeda comes from, they were just using Afghanistan as a base. Invading Iraq forced al Qaeda to come and defend it's Arabian heartland. The Iraq operations inflamed al Qaeda members in Saudi Arabia to start attacking Saudis and other Arabs. This cost al Qaeda a lot of support among Arabs, and would not have happened if Iraq were not invaded. The war on terror is mainly a police and intelligence function. The troops that are needed most for counter-terrorism are special operations (Special Forces and commandoes.) Special operations forces were pulled out of Afghanistan for the Iraq campaign, but most of the action in Afghanistan is best handled by regular coalition troops, Afghans and the Pakistanis. After 2001, the war in Afghanistan was mainly political, not military. Special Forces troops specialize in a particular part of the world, and they are all over the planet chasing down terrorists. The war in Iraq gave the Special Forces an opportunity to work intensively, and without restraint, in an Arab country.

U.S. Army should be expanded! It takes several years to recruit new troops, train them and organize them into new units. By then, the army leadership feels they won't be needed. But the army will still have to pay for them. This will mean less money for training and new weapons and equipment. To the army leadership, that strategy will get more soldiers killed in combat in the long run. The basic problem is that you cannot expand the army quickly and still have the same highly effective professional troops.

Iraqi army should not have been disbanded after Saddam fell! The Iraqi army has been, for over half a century, the chief source of tyranny and oppression in the country. Army commanders overthrew the government time after time, and used their soldiers to brutalize the population. By keeping all, or part, of the army intact, and armed, coalition risked a quick return of the warlord attitude that gave the Iraqi people dictators like Saddam (and several others who preceded him.) Saddam's innovation was to establish the Republican Guard as a force to keep the army from overthrowing him. Saddam also freely fired, or executed, army officers who appeared likely to try and stage a coup. And there were several coup attempts by army officers, even in the face of Saddam's secret police and Republican Guard. Keeping the old Iraqi army in business was just asking for more trouble.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,061 • Replies: 60
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:35 am
Re: The Myths of Iraq
With making STRONG difference between "Americans" and "America", America is hated worldwide, so it's pretty refreshing to find out that according to you Iraq is positive example...
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John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 05:13 am
According to the most recent survey, nine out of ten Iraqis say they prefer being ruled by President Bush ..... to being immersed in a heap of camel dung. Drunk
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 05:26 am
but all world is changing its attitude - approximately 7 of 9 european women say they prefer being ruled by President Bush...to being sent to Afghanistan. Even in US things look good for Bush, since almost 99% of Americans in the most recent survey say they would vote for him...if Osama bin Laden is only other available candidate, while in UK only 53% would vote for Tony Blair if Osama bin Laden is only other available candidate
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 05:47 am
Crap
Instead of that Right Wing propaganda crap by this PR putz that was posted,you can go to place on the Net where there are real stories about Iraq and Iraqis.

http://occupationwatch.org/
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 05:55 am
pistoff, I honestly doubt there is anyone with minimal capability of using his or her own brain that actually needs this link - and, no, this is not offensive to Tarantulas or anyone else on this forum, cause I honestly doubt they're believing in their posts as well - but when you're PR you're PR and your job is your job...
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infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:37 am
Bush is good!

Occupation is good!

Imperialism is good!

Mounting US troop deaths (5 more just yesterday) is good!

Spending $4.7 billion of our tax dollars per month on Iraq is good!

Infowarrior thinks tarantulas has been totally brainwashed! Laughing
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 09:14 am
Info, you forgot the most important Bush mantra:
The more US troops die, the more it means we're "winning"
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 09:50 am
I cant comment on the whole article,because I'm not there any longer.I do however,have some knowledge agout the first two assertions made.THEY ARE TRUE!
To put in perspective,Iraq is a country roughly the size of California,and we are having trouble with an area that is roughly the size of the Los Angeles basin.
Most of Iraq is peaceful,and is on the way to rebuilding.
I find it interesting that the people that are opposed to this war are also the same people that refuse to accept any good news from there.
The left seems determined to find all th negatives and ignore the positives,why is that?
I would suggest to the left on here to actually go to Iraq and see for yourselves,and not believe everything you see on the news.
I have been to Iraq,I have first hand knowledge of what is going on,and I can say that Tarantulas is right about the first two asertions that he makes.
I cannot however,speak about the rest of his assertions.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 05:23 pm
My marine friend says he is not right. (whoever the author is)
Of course, he's not stationed in those places where he is not needed.
I still think we need to hand this over to the UN. Too many of us have died, and we can't afford the economic price tag either.
And this may be un-PC, but I'm not willing to trade my son's life for an Iraqi life.
Are you, Tarantulas? Mysteryman?
What we've done is stir up trouble where there was none, and taken attention and resources away from the goal of catching the real enemy. Not to mention broadened the pool of our official enemies.
Mysteryman, It's not refusing to accept any good news, rather, it's alll of the above^. The war is going well? We still shouldn't have been there in the first place, and Americans are still dying. The end still doesn't justify the means. that's why we're not cheering. Iraq can become a democracy one day; we're still out 700 Americans.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:16 pm
Suzy,
I traded 3 marine lives,and part of my right hand,to protect a woman and her child that were caught in the crossfire of a firefight in Nassiriyah.
That was expensive,but EVERY marine I know would say its part of the job.Its a risk we accepted whe we raised our right hand.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:33 pm
All the guys here who have returned home from Iraq report that things are nowhere near as negative as the alphabet media sources are reporting it. They are proud of the humanitarian work the U.S. military is performing with very good results in addition to being shot at and targeted with bombs and rockets from a group that is approximately the size of the LA gang population.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:41 pm
I didn't raise my right hand.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:44 pm
The following is something I found to be informative regarding this topic.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0416/vest.php
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 06:56 pm
I guess I won't say I'm sorry about what happened to you and the "3 marines", MM, since, as you say, "its part of the job. Its a risk we accepted ".
I could say you're rationalizing the war so that you can feel you had a good and just reason for your loss. Much like people accept Jesus when they lose someone, because you gotta have something. Some excuse.
Some rationale.
However, I am sorry about you and your friends, anyway. On the other hand, if there must be loss, it is best borne by those who support this war, if you ask me.

But again, I'm not willing to trade my son's life for an Iraqi life.

That's what it comes down to.

Plus the fact that we're NO SAFER and probably LESS SAFE since we took on this endeavor. I'm supposed to be happy Iraqis may someday have a democracy? Quite a trade off. I wonder if they even wanted one?
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 07:06 pm
You may not be willing,but if he ever does enlist,you wont have a choice in the matter.
Every person in uniform,from regular military to NG to eserves,knows that part of the job is possibly going into places that they might get shot at.
I'm sorry you have no sympathy for the US troops that get hurt or killed,because it s "part of the job".
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 07:48 pm
I'd say it was pretty negative for the four schoolchildren who were gunned down by US troops yesterday. Do you even get these reports in the US?
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Wild Bill
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 07:53 pm
I personally know one soldier. She joined the N. Guard signing a contract that stipulated that she would not see combat. She's a diesel mechanic. She was sent to Iraq while still on the mend and in physical therapy for a broken leg. She was forced to do training runs with a 50 lb pack re-injuring it. Her helicopter was shot down, no injuries. She and several in her unit became extremely ill after digging munitions that were discovered. Two died. She was airlifted to Germany for liver failure. She returned to Iraq to continue manning a 50 cal. gun in a convoy. She wrote her mother stating that they shoot their way through areas in a manner that she feels surely kills civilians, too. She was airlifted to Colorado after a mortar knocked her from her gun, landing on her leg. She is in Colorado now, still on active duty status, waiting for the surgeon to return from maternity leave. She has been told that she must live off base at her own expense. Her mother, a close friend, has visited her twice.

She's up for a purple heart from the helicopter crash even though it didn't injure her. She thinks it is because the military will say that any disability will be from that event rather than from negligence concerning the early physical drills, which is what did much of the damage.

My son will be draftable by the next president. I support our troops. I don't support misuse of our troops. I don't want my son involved, especially under the current administration.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 08:18 pm
"I'm sorry you have no sympathy for the US troops that get hurt or killed,because it s "part of the job".
You're the one with no sympathy. You made your statement to poo-poo the idea that one should be disgusted by the death count, pretty much. (Part of the job, goes with the territory, blah blah blah.) Was that supposed to be sympathy? Sounds to me like you're trying to be cavalier but offended when anyone accepts it as such!
"I don't support misuse of our troops" Nicely said, Wild Bill.
Wilso, we actually do get that news. Some don't care, as you can see.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 10:07 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Suzy,
I traded 3 marine lives,and part of my right hand,to protect a woman and her child that were caught in the crossfire of a firefight in Nassiriyah.
That was expensive,but EVERY marine I know would say its part of the job.Its a risk we accepted whe we raised our right hand.


mysteryman

Though soldiers may act with honor, and usually do, does not mean that the project in which they are engaged is honorable.

We can trust that many men in either Stalin's or Hitler's armies, just as the men/women from England, or Canada, or the US fought with honor.

It is NOT proper citizenship to support or be quiet when a war is being waged by one country when one feels that that war is dishonorable. So many of us do speak out.
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