Corporal Punishment in Schools

Re: Corporal Punishment in Schools

It depends upon how the law is written. In general, some state rules apply equally to private and public schools (such as fire codes, etc.), whereas others do not (such as dress codes). In Illinois, for instance, public high school students are required, by law, to take four years of physical education. Private school students, in contrast, are exempt from that kind of curricular requirement. On the other hand, kids in many parochial schools are required to take religion classes, whereas students in public schools, of course, are not.

Corporal punishment at schools?

If some teacher here in Germany would do so, who would at once get (severe problems in if not loose) his job, certainly parents/pupils would go to court (cue: 'child abuse on dependants').

It may not be. In Mass., I know that many schools associated with churches can file exemptions meaning they do not need to comply with certain school state rules. I have been trying to find information about this law, but have not been successful other than it states they do not allow corporal punishments in schools - there is nothing stating whether it applies to public, private or both.

In today's environment I doubt they could get away with paddling a child.

Good question. I'll see if I can find out anything.

I found a legal site and started cutting and pasting stuff before my friggin computer crashed again.
All I found was that NJ has separate laws for private schools, leading me to believe that there's a possibility many other states do. Also, it seems that school boards within the states can have different interpretations of the law. Some suggest that you have to write a letter requesting that your child receive no corporal punishment, and ask that your pediatrician co-sign it, but that still is no guarantee. I suggest you simply call the school and ask them about it.

I believe that once you reach Corporal, you probably shoudn't be in school anymore. If you are, that might deserve some punishment, or at least a "nyah nyah, stoopid army dude".

The law in Mass. is covered in Chapter 71 which only applies to public schools.

I couldn't find anything apoplicable to private schools so... who knows??

Cav, now that's funny!

Thanks suzy! It's worth the clown costume then.

But that sign you're holding up... tsk tsk!
Are you really a woman? 'Cause, you know, ladies aint s'posed to talk like that there!

But I won't tell anybody; it'll be our little secret

I assure you suzy, I am a man, and have photos in the gallery to prove it.

Oh! I could've sworn somewhere else here I got the impression you were a chick! So sorry!
Then you can just go right ahead with that pottymouth sign of yours!

I am not opposed at all to corporal punishment, only done by a parent. If some school teacher or principal ever laid a hand on a kid of mine, I would blow a gasket. I don't feel anyone has the right to physically correct a child, with exception to parents.

This was so common when I went to school. I was always a screw off. I remember having to bend over, in front of the entire class, touching my toes, for a teacher to hit me on my butt for not turning in school work. One time it was even over using a pensil sharpener without permission. In those days, little girls, in early grade school, wore dresses. It was 69 through about 72. Dresses were short. It was unlady like to bend over without boys seeing your underwear. It was nothing but humiliation to a very young child in my day. It is with my dying breath that I see a child of mine go through this. I can and will correct young children. My parents were never informed of a problem at all.

I started refusing to go to school at all, in early grade school. I knew my parents would always side with those of any authority and only punish me further. I was afraid to tell them. I told my grandma, who came to take me to school, since I threw such a fit refusing to go to school at all that I missed my bus. My mother didn't drive. She had no idea what to think and couldn't have. My mother wouldn't understand either and side with authority, even when wrong. I knew that. I was afraid to tell my parents why I was horrified to go to school fearing further punishment over stupid little things. I was never disruptive or a problem in class.

corporal punishment, as I knew it, was nothing more than demeaning and barbaric behavior out of educated professionals in education. Like my parents would take my word over theirs. Right! My grandma had a habit of rescuing me from my parents when I got in trouble. Finally, I told her. As I guessed as a young grade school kid, my mother believed the teachers, not me. My grandma believed me. She has lived long enough to see many things. My grandma is not a shy person. She also made it stop, but I never trusted it ever.

The school denyed doing anything to me, but they did. Authority is and can be abused. I learned as a young grade school child not to trust it. As much as I hate laws claiming I am abusing my children if I dare to lay a hand on them, I strongly object to the school having this ability. I have and will strike my kids, only when they deserve it. I don't object to smacking them in the mouth when they wish to run it way too far. I don't object to knocking the hell out of out of control teens trying to control you as long as you hit with no injury.

I love my kids. I do feel physical punishment for behavior is in order at times. I would advise any parent to use this very selectively. A few are abusive, but the vast majority of us are not. My son has dared me to strike him claiming child abuse. You cannot discipline your own child when they know you can't do a thing to them. I will anyway. I am not abusing them. They have no injury at all.

If they really want to know what child abuse is, I can show them, if they are smart mouth enough to beg for it. Child abuse is defined as acceptable discipline I had as a kid, by todays standards. I got it with a leather belt, buckle end running my big mouth. My dad was not wrong either. I have had soap forced in my mouth by pulling my hair and holding my nose. No, I wasn't allowed to have a drink afterwards. I had many bruises and whelts on my body. I did act awful and very disrespectful to my parents as well or they would never have approved of this sort of thing.

I remember recently being at my parent's house. My dad is 72 and can't remember much these days. Here he is spoiling his cats rotten. I was joking with him. I said that I would rather be his cat than his daughter. Geez, he even holds the lid of a container patiently while his cat licks it! I don't resent him or my mother at all. As soon as my words hit his ears, there was a sudden change of expression on his face. He walked over to me and said the the worst thing you can do with a child is spoil them. He said cats were different. He is right.

It is the parents place to discipline, not the school with any sort of physical punishment and, believe me, I have run my big mouth and had it all with my parents. The only thing I was guilty of at school was no turning in a paper. This should be reported to parents to take action on, not up to some teacher to humiliate any kid expecting conformity. They got hatred, resentment, and disillusionment out of me, not any school work. It also gave me a bad attitude that never ended until I became a high school drop out.

The only thing I find amusing is the fact that I can make a hell of a lot more money than any school teacher can. My son isn't exactly a conformist either and I have had my hands full with him for years. I am as educated as any school teacher and don't get summer vacation and Christmas break while drawing unemployment checks.

They tried to intimidate me. They tried telling me to drug my son with Ritalin. I had a psych eval and my son was found to be with no abnormalities at all. I don't fear authority any more. I question it. Teachers don't like me much because they can't intimidate me. Thankfully, my kids are out of grade school. It sucks that they have to turn into rotten teens though!!

I would suggest a good Shinai practice sword for ass-whoopin' the teen outta yer kids. It's made from bamboo, and it stings like hell, often leaves welts too, but it does not cause permanent damage. I applaud you on your valiant efforts, wildflower.

Yikes!
On the other hand, they're gonna get over this anyway. Mine went through similar experiences as yours, WildFlower, and they are truly fine young men now. And I was not a hitter.
I tried once, couldn't catch them!

I am not very much of a hitter either. The times that a kid needs to be hit are few and far between. It is a last option type of thing when kids get way out of hand only. I believe this takes good judgement. When I grew up, kids were hit way too often. It was a primary punishment for kids, not a when all else fails or when they start daring you to strike them, which both of my kids have pulled on me because I don't generally hit them at all.

This is a very grey area. I don't want to hit my kids. I don't buy verbal abuse as anything better and feel that it is actually worse than striking children. I have seen a change towards this with parents who feel they cannot strike a child to discipline them out of sheer frustration. Words often can hurt a lot more than a broken bone.

I have found it necessary, at times, to strike my children. It is seldom. With little kids, sometimes it is the only language they understand, when all else fails, to keep them safe, like walking out in the street. I have removed my kids from a restaurant giving them a wack on the butt when they refused to behave disrupting others after trying everything else. They sit at the table and act at least civilized after they come back in. I'm talking a wack on the butt, not beating them up, which I never condone, no matter what the circumstance. This time out stuff for younger children is the biggest bunch of bull I have ever attempted.

I have found older children will back talk and blatantly challenge your authority. Kids will and do test the waters seeing just how much they can get away with down to trying to run the household, if you let them get away with it. First I try the typical stuff saying they don't pay the bills. This is completely disrespectful and I'm not going to tolerate it. They know the rules and reasons for them. I am not going to argue with them. Get in your room. No one wants to hear this nonsense, especially me. That type of stuff, which is basically standing up for yourself.

Then they refuse to go into their room as I told them. They will go to their room if I have to use physical force to make them or let them run the house. If it takes striking them to get them in their room, I will do that. You cannot allow a smart mouth kid with an attitude to make the rules.

I don't believe any one besides a parent has the right to use striking a child as a form of punishment. If a parent chooses to do this, it should be as a last ditch effort. Verbal abuse is not an acceptable substitute for having a rule of never striking a child.

There is no rule book to raising kids. Plenty of people write them and make a lot of money. That's all it is really about, in my opinion. These parenting books drive me nuts. I wish kids came with instructions! Since they don't, parents have to handle each child differently.

Some kids are going to be more difficult to raise than others. I got real lucky and have two difficult kids, each in completely different ways. I had a friend with a son one week older than mine. She had a drinking problem. The kid acted terrible! He was spoiled rotten with no discipline at all. We locked horns over a seat belt. I insist that everyone wear them in my car. She let him make the rules. The combo of the two of them was enough to drive anyone insane! I started on the kid telling him the car was not going to move until he put his seat belt on. She got angry with me. When he finally did, one of my kids announced that he unbuckled it while I was driving. I pulled the car over. She got upset with me again. My car. My rules. My legal problem if everyone doesn't wear a seat belt. This kid had no respect at all.

While we are all placing bets on how long it would take for this kid to go to kid jail over something, he is an honor roll student. He just can't miss church on Sunday either. I don't call this good parenting. He never had any. I call this good luck! Why do my kids act so rotten when I really tried hard?

This is an example of why I don't feel parents should blame themselves for poor parenting when their kids act clearly out of line with what they were taught. Some of just have kids that want to experience everything and find themselves in trouble doing it. You find kids raised the same way in the same family that one is a trouble maker and the other never gives a parent any problem at all.

All I feel any parent can do is try to teach their children with their heart in the right place. They have to have reasonable rules to live by, but will push the limits. I don't think there is a clear answer to striking children as right or wrong. I think extremes of being overly strict or too lax aren't the grandest of ideas. Having unreasonable strict rules that are teaches a kid to be a liar and sneaky. Being overly lax never teaches them discipline, which the have to learn before they can ever be self disciplined adults.

You have to use good judgement and common sense. That really is all that you can ask of a parent, to try and work with their children.

I agree completely with the thought that spanking or paddling a child is humiliating. To me this can be worse than the actual physical pain. Your experience and how strongly you now feel shows how cruel and self defeating these types of actions are to children.

I understand that some people do spank their children and as a last resort do not see any issues with it. Each child is different so different types of punishment work best dependant on the child. Spanking never worked for my youngest brother, he would just laugh. I do not agree with you on time outs. For my young daughter time outs work very well. Not the type where they get to sit in their room and play, but sit some where in which they have no option but to stare at a blank wall and not move. She cannot stand it. For other children this may not phase them. Some taking away a favorite toy or a privilege may be sufficient.

I agree with pretty much all of the above.
A parent has to be creative and thoughtful at every turn. My kids were maniacs for a few years after leaving their abusive father. I couldn't bring myself to hit them, and I've never been much of a yeller, unless I was really over the edge, so I devised other ways. Mostly I gritted my teeth, knowing they would eventually become human beings! One time, the two younger boys were yelling and being disrespectful to me. They were probably 8 and 10.
I made them sit down and write 250 words on why they shouldn't behave like that. They were allowed to do nothing else until they finished. I came across those essays recently and they cracked me up all over again. The older one's goes something like this:
"I should not yell at my mother because then she will make me write 250 words about why I shouldn't. There, that is 23 words so far. I would really rather be out playing. That is 36 words..."
The younger one's goes like this:
I shouldn't yell at my mommy because she is good to me and she loves me very much. My mommy takes me to the park..."
It's so funny! The differences in the two kids, and it's still that way. I will give these to them some day when they have children of their own. That was one of my better punishments!
As teengers, for a time I couldn't make them do anything, and wished I had established a pattern of hitting so they'd have at least some reason to tow the line, but I had nothing. We had problems with one or the other of them refusing to get up in the morning for school, staying out too late, smoking pot, etc. But they all made it through high school, all graduated, all have really good jobs, (they even wear their seat belts in their own cars!), they are kind and respectful to people, treat their girlfriend's well, and are just all-around good guys. I think that my personality has always suited me to parenting, and my kids have always been my first thought. (How will this action effect how they think in the future, blah blah) and it all came together well. They always knew that I not only love them, but respect and trust them, and my faith in them became their faith in themselves. Many people have commented on what a great job I did as a parent, and I feel really good about that, since it was my main and most important goal. Nothing else I ever do will be quite as satisfying. What job could ever have consequences so important?