Corporal Punishment in Schools

I see where you are coming from. I think it turns out to be something like shock TV. You get used to it. That was such common practice, it didn't shock or upset anyone, in the late 60's to early 70's. It socially outcasted me. I had a few, very few, friends on my side.

I don't think this is a good thing for kids to view. It teaches them to use force, not their mind, to solve a simple problem. It tells kids the physically powerful will win, with no thought at all. The schoolyard bully becomes acceptable, if adults act the same way. That is nothing I want my kids taught!

As far as your daughter is concerned, I hope she is never hit by any school teacher. That does cause distrust and psychological harm. Viewing it for the first time, she will probably question what she is seeing. You will probably hear about it, if it bothers her or just as a newsflash she hasn't given much thought to. You will hear it, in some form, if you give your kids time to speak openly.

It is up to you, her parent, to explain to her and give adult thoughts on the subject. I wouldn't stop with an opinion of right or wrong. I would give reasoning of both sides, then my opinion or value judgement. Your kids will usually agree with you when presented with fact, not dictated to.

I hope no child, in a civilized country, has to see or endure this. I would tell my daughter why they are doing this, as a form of punishment for ill behavior. I would never condone the behavior. I would explain alternatives, as either encouragement or deterrent, to bad behavior that could be used. I would state my opinion, as being barbaric. I would ask her what she thinks.

Believe me, your daughter will be hurt well beyond any physical pain inflicted on her with a paddle. Children are afraid to tell parents, knowing they did something bad fearing more punishment, when they already got way more than they deserved. The kid has already been punished. No parent has to take any further measure, but to guide their child, not criticize or further punish.

You appear to be a concerned and very capable parent. Given the fact that I was paddled, in front of the whole class, many times, I completely distrusted any teacher and hated school. As soon as I turned 16, I quit and didn't care. I wanted out for so many years, since early grade school, in fact.

I quit school and couldn't care less what blow ups my parents may have over it. My dad wasn't so bad. He could identify. My mother was hysterical and I didn't care. It was and is my life to screw up. I wasn't exactly mature with that decision and know it.

My mother is very much a conformist. Given the traditional times I was raised, I knew that I could not tell her of humiliation and physical pain inflicted on me repeatedly by teachers for not doing my work, but drawing pictures of anything, which I loved. I chose to get out of the public schools the second I could. I never brought home any brilliant report card, but never failed a single grade either. This really is what violent behavior towards a young student creates. You resent and want out.

My dad had the same exact problems I did. He never criticized me at all. I worked full time and didn't have to be told to. I wasn't lazy. Neither was he. He is also a high school drop out knowing exactly why I wanted out. He wanted me to work and I didn't have to be told to. He gave me simple advice that he was only capable of giving. He gave me time to live under the roof which he worked and paid for as long as I tried. I did. He also knew that I had some growing up to do.

He gave me that. He would also give me a vicious beating when he felt I was out of line. Better stated, out of family standards and values. He is an old blue collar guy, union labor. He only understood life as the past, which he knew. I do not resent my father. He loved me and I know it. I was far from an easy kid to raise.

I remember being at my parents house. I have to laugh at my dad spoiling his two cats so rotten. It is funny! I was joking. I said that I would rather be his cat than his daughter, after watching him hold a yogurt lid patiently, while his cat licked it. He immediately changed expression. He got up and walked to me. He said his cat was his pet. His daughter is his child. He said the worst think you can ever do to a child is spoil them. I know that my father did what he felt was right and I do not resent the buckle end of the belt. I was awful, but that is considered abuse today. I also know my father loves me and wants a good life for me, not one of some sense of entitlement against my family values.

My mother never did not understand me. I'm 40 years old and she still doesn't. Being a complete conformist, my decision to quit school was a horror to her. I never thought I would hear the end of it. Actually, it took a college degree to shut her up. All I ever got from her is verbal abuse, criticism, and punishment. That's ok. She was afraid for me.

I have my own horrible teens to deal with. Suddenly, you become a lot more understanding of your parents and don't blame them for not being flawless. You do the best you can, with your heart in the right place, which no teacher can have. I demand the right to utilize my own family values and judgement and how to deal with any problem with my loved children. I would never hand this right over to someone who does not care, like family. Teachers are not able to be emotionally involved with any student to make this sort of decision. Parents should.

Kids are in overcrowded classrooms today. I do think a teacher's job is way easy, when comparing it to mine. I expect more out of, so called, educated professionals. I am held to a much higher standard. I don't get Christmas break and summer vacation, milking unemployment for leisure time. Don't tell me they can't think of ways to help children, beyond assault.

The answers are too easy for teachers. A kid not doing their work should be reported to parents. They should be made to stay after school to finish what they didn't bother do do. This is deterrent, with no abuse and no attitude problem on the part of a child.

Disruptive students should be immediately be removed from the class. Let their superior, the principal, deal with them and contact parents. Some kids have no family support. You do have to force inconvenience on parents, at times. Parents who wish no responsibility will quickly object to interference in their life to pick up their out of control child after the busses run, for a ride home. No matter, parents are still legally obligated to children until the age of 18. They don't pick up their disruptive child, made to do academic work, after school, they are negligent, under law and can be prosecuted for this.

Again, I completely stand against assault of a minor in the public school system. There are better ways. If any teacher is ignorant enough to use physical force on a minor, they don't deserve the responsibility towards children in the first place. They should be fired for a crime, assault.

Geez! I really should give up on being a nurse and attempt novels!! Sorry to bore you guys....

I totally disagree with corporal punishment. Whether it's done by a parent, guardian, teacher or school administrator. All corporal punishment does is teach a child that violence is the way you handle a problem for wrong doing.

Hitting a child only serves to instill fear in him/her. Respect and good behavior should occur by setting good examples for your child and teaching them right from wrong.

My blood boils when I see an adult hit a child or a person adult/child hit an animal.

Verbal abuse is just as damaging to a child as physcial abuse (if not more). When an adult humiliates or corrects a child in a vulgar way drives me nuts.

To this day, I still remember the principal of the elementary school I attended, Mr. Clancy hitting boys hard in the head if they talked out of order or did something wrong. That was almost 40 years ago and that feeling of being scared is still with me. My parents didn't believe in hitting, so that kind of punishment was something foreign to me. Thank goodness.

I think there are differences in hitting and hitting. I never verbally abused my daugher anywhere...I never hit her in public and I never beat her. However, when she was particularly bad (and everybody that has kids knows that there are times when, with all due respect, they will not accept nice and calm explanations) I spanked her. I never spanked her more then once and it was never strong.
She is 4,5 years old and I probably spanked her 4-5 times in her life. And I don't think I was wrong in any of those cases. After trying all calm and reasonable ways to explane her that she is behaving wrong I was more or less left with three choices:
1) to spank her - as I said, always once, always mild and it always worked
2) to send her to her room
3) to let her do what she is doing

In my opinion, other two choices are worse for her physical and psyhical growth. When she will be 14 I will send her to her room or ground her for week. When she is 4,5 I think sending her to her room to be alone would be worse abuse then spanking....

I think that hitting a child is really about the parent taking their frustration out on the child. They hit the child because it makes them feel better not to teach the child something. If any of us did something wrong at work....be it making a mistake or insubordination, would you think it's okay for the boss to hit you? Even if it's to teach you a lesson? Would you tolerate letting a peer hit you, even if the reason was justifiable? (No such thing IMO). Of course not. Adults get arrested when they hit another adult. Why on God's earth do people think it acceptable (in some circumstances) to hit a child?

Do I completely agree! An animal is always so innocent, but children can be master manipulators. I feel this is up to family to decide on how to handle the situation, not any teacher.

I cannot deny striking my children. I have, but it has always been as a complete last effort. As, very young toddlers, I would hit them on the butt out of things they would do to endanger them, like waltzing out in the street, ignoring my command tone to get back or die. This is the only reason my kids were ever hit, for safety reasons to keep them alive, as very young toddlers.

Things were ok, until they turned into teens. I have hit my teen kids, using a weapon. They are physically stronger than I am. They also completely challenged me and my authority, with attempt to run the house. Again, it was a last ditch effort of fury over the exact same problem. I did hit my teen kids. I didn't hurt them, just their feelings. What about mine?

Their father has never participated in their lives. I am known to all my pets as doing nothing but spoil them rotten, but this isn't fair to me or my kids allowing them authority without earning it. It was the last thing I ever wanted, but did use force on teens and small children to force them to see who was in control. It is unfair to a child to allow them this earned adult privilidge. They will exepect everything to come so easy, if a parent does not stand up to them, when all methods have failed, beyond a language they understand.

I cannot condone physical theats, punishment, or anything of the sort, as a first measure of desire to control another, even your own child. The should be allowed to make appropriate choices, given an age. Small children do have to have a simple wack on the butt, at times, or will rule you and put themselves in physical danger of life and death.

Teens wish to run the house. It is up to a parent to stop this behavior. I will. I will use many measures first. After you exhuast that, what do you have left? Your own fury, with physical force against them. It isn't like they didn't already challenge and dare you to even try. They did. They don't know reality just yet.

I put my own loved 17 year old son on notice, just recently. He is a high school drop out. He has a job in a dishroom. He can pay for a car and insurance, since he has no other expenses. He is giving me an attitude. I told him to plan on moving out at 18, when I have no further legal responsibility towards him and I'm sick of the trap. Every adult knows how far that one will go. He will have to chose between driving and rent, if he moves out. He already knows my expectations of further education, but he is not under my control.

At times, parents have to hit their own children, who have pushed way too far. This is seldom, with older children and should never be the first or second or even third choice. I strongly believe this a the right of a loving parent, not some school teacher. Parents decide how to raise their children. Do not assume the majority as inadequate, just because a very few are. I find this offensive to my parenting and demand rights, as I see fit, as a loving parent, as the majority are. Don't hold us to such a low standard because a few abuse parental rights. I do resent that.

any physical violence is a symtom of the inability of the offender to be able to assert their opinion by socially acceptable means.

this is highly important in a 'learning' environment since the 'teacher' is automatically treated as a role model by the student.
also if the more mature, and usually physically larger teacher, finds it necessary to resort to violence, the message, that that is acceptable, is stronger to the student/victim.

as with the laws produced by our governments, teachers practices should be of the highest 'moral' example.

[worst case scenario:
"stop that. don't hit Johnny!" .....slap!]

Our schools send home a document to sign, in order to apply Corporal Punishment.

I always write in that if my child does anything they think merits CP, they should call me, and I check the NO box.

They paddle with a huge wooden paddle.

...<Georgia>

doglover, do you have kids? I know it's too intimate question in a way, so you definitely don't need to answer, but I am really wondering. Or, if you don't have your own kids, have you at least worked in kindergarten?
If answer on any of those questions is "yes" then you were either incredibly lucky to have real saints for kids or you let them way too much which CAN (does not HAVE to) also lead to very bad things later.

I never spank my child to feel better, actually no matter how I think that every time all other possibilities were included and always it was really last effort I usually felt bad after it, despite the fact she deserved it.
And with all due respect, comparing parent-child relation to boss-employee relation is at least bizarre, I will not use "stronger" words. My boss is not responsible for my life.

One spank on a butt when child is either particularly nasty (and ALL children, especially pre-school kids are sometimes very nasty) or when they are in danger is something, I AM SURE, 99% of parents did few times in life. Of course, there are also people that really abuse their children and those that think that it's better to teach child that she or he can do whatever he wants and others will only reply with nice and calm explanations. Of course, maybe if you are lucky that will teach them something.

And then again, using Widlflowers quote, if you are unlucky, they will end up hit by a car while you trying to calmly explane them that it's not nice to run into traffic and that they should walk calmly next to you.

Hitting child because of bad grade, because child accidently spilled something or immidiately when she or he does something wrong is different subject in which we agree. But you cannot generalize things.

Georgia, I agree with you completely. Parents should have a choice in how young children are disciplined in school. I will check that NO box with red ink!! I do feel our society should be above even sending a form like this home to any parent, at least it gives parents the right to say no and be contacted with any problem their child may cause.

Things changed, in time, here. With exception to elementary school, where striking a child was the norm, my kids both went to the exact same schools I did, as their worthless father, but he really wasn't always this way. I am thankful for changes, that my kids will never be subjected to, illegal, if adult, as assault.

You strike a teen today, you might just get hit back by their outrage of public humilation. This is the singular reason teachers use violent behavior against very young students, not older kids. Older kids get smart fast, but may not always be right or within rules. If I can think of a zillion ways of handling a kid, with no formal education as an educator, why on earth can't they?

As adults, we have the right to physically defend ourselves when known physical violence is going to occur. Personally, I would laugh at any teacher that would utilize corporal punishment, better called, assault against a minor, if one of them hit back any teacher who is definitely going to strike them. By adult law, this is self defence to protect yourself from physical injury and legally allowed, but not for school kids! They have few rights

I will be the first to say that if either of my children were subjected to corporal punishment or assault, a term that more adequately describes this behavior by an educated individual that we trust our children with. I would deal with the crime they are guilty of only, while completely ignoring the fact that they physically lashed out against a teacher, with intent of public humiliation and physical pain. If they happened to hit a teacher, who was obviously going to hit them, I would support that decision as self defence only, without ignoring what it is, this time, that got them in trouble. That part, I definitely would deal with and not ignore.

I will also be the breathing fire on any arrogant teacher, or figure of authority, for taking measures, that are clearly illegal and ethically wrong, to anyone in a school who wishes to use physical force, very stupidly, thinking they are ever going to get compliance. I don't have to be an education major with a degree to know this is far from the answer. I only wish that I was smart enough to get such an easy degree, but didn't. Any RN has much higher standards for the most senile patient, knowing you cannot assault them, by unwaned touch, in any way, no matter their state of mine or what mind they even have left.

I don't condone violent acts to solve any problem. It never does. I cannot say that I have never given my kids a wack on the butt, as small children, only when they were endangering themselves. I feel there are many circumstances when a parent, one who actually loves and cares for their own children, to strike a child. For example, we all fear for young children's safety. We all preach over and over again, to ensure it. Kids will be kids. They already know words, but will push you to back them.

I also see parents of teen kids utilizing the police department, fearing legalities of striking a child. This is a complete waste of police time that needs to be used elsewhere, but kids will scream abuse no matter how wrong they are. I own two rotten teens. They are supposed to be awful or they wouldn't have earned their lovely reputation. My kids live up to it.

I could go into a list a mile long about my son's stupid antics. I thought I was Bart Simpson's mom, being on speed dial at the principal's office. He got in trouble constantly over social antics. He wouldn't do school work either. Do you think I am thrilled yet?

Far from it! I have a 13 year old daughter with a ton of attitude and finds me an acceptable person to throw it all at, only because I love her. Why didn't I get these easy kids who conform? I guess that I already know the answer to that, I never did and never will. I taught them to be independent thinkers with ethics. They try, but don't necessarily live up to your teachings.

My son was a nightmare. He knew my complete objection to ear piercing, but did it anyway. I did use force on him. I took that right out of his ear. He got my wrath. He has a few times challenging authority. Now I have a know it all 13 year old daughter with a big smart mouth taking advantage.

"Live with my rules or live with your father." are empty threats and she knows it. If I feel my 17 year old son needs more parenting and guidance, just think about how I feel about a 13 year old, who is verbally abusive, refusing to do the slightest thing asked of her.

Teen kids know laws of abuse. You can't lay one hand on them or go to court and pay for the legal fees. I strongly feel that this is another instance when physical force is necessary, when teens rule your home. Both of my kids have tried this one. They have both screamed abuse, when they are the abusive ones, not me. I tell them to go right ahead and report me. I will willingly give up parental responsibility while they live in foster care. Go for it, if you really think anyone will love, as I do, which teens often take for granted.

I have been there too many times. I have tried every measure first. Kids will and do get so out of control daring you to hit them. I will. I dare them to find anyone who loves them, as I do. I dare them to find a better home, with foster care. Do me a big favor and report me, which releases me of responsibility towards them.

The funny thing is, they both know better and this is of their decision with child abuse threats against me. They do have a father, who completely ignores them. He is an addict. They only have me and know it. I tell them that, if they can't live by my very easy rules, live with their father. Report me to police for grabbing them by the hair demanding respect out of both of them, with a known objection to ear piercing by my son or my daughter's blatant disrespectful and abusive words. They both have tried to control me and make the rules, with the law of child abuse on their side, thinking I cannot touch that. Think again!

It would be a whole lot easier for me to turn them over to their useless drunk of a father to fend for themselves and throw him a few bucks of child support. Teens are so difficult, I never imagined it. So was I, if I really want to go there. I grew up and so will they. It takes time and physical discipline, if everything else fails, which it has for me at times.

Do you honestly think I like using physical force on my own children? I hate it. What I hate even more is self indulgent adults with some sense of entitlement. I demand better out of my children and will not be taken advantage of. Neither should any parent because teens will threaten you with abuse laws. Let them be foster kids. Let them live in an orphanage. We were horrible parents who dared to lay a hand on kids that abused parents, but no law protects us, correct?

No parent is forced to accept the unacceptable out of children, fearing law. I say my life would be so much easier without kids, than with them. I could have a small apartment, throw my husband a few bucks, and have a sense of freedom of responsibility. I do love my kids more than that. I can't always let them know or be taken advantage of.

I firmly believe striking a child is up to responsible parental decision. I will not allow some low life that abused their child to lower standards on me. No parent should. Don't buy it that you never have to hit your child, unless you are among the very lucky, with a conformist child or teen. Most of us parents are not dealing with easy teens or children. It should only be up to a loving parent to use any physical force on a child, no matter what age, after exhausting all other measures.

We, parents, should never be criminalized for necessary discipline needed for our children. We, parents, should never use police, who have better things to do, to settle disputes from an outrageous teen, fearing current law. I believe it is a grand mistake to never use physical force on a child, no matter what age. I do believe that you should be a responsible parent, which the vast majority are, and use this as the last ditch effort, when all else fails. It is psychological fact that teens think they know it all and are invincible towards danger to themselves. Parents have to stop them, with no fear of law. That is being a parent.

It probably is true, the children became desensitized. That in itself is scary - to think even if your child was never spanked in the class, that your child could become desensitized and feel that violence is o-k. It shows that spanking is not only extremely harmful for the child being spanked, but for those witnessing it.

Thanks wildflower for your thoughts. If this ever happens to my child or even if I hear about it happening to another child, believe me, that school will hear from me. And of course I would discuss it with my child.

DL hitting a child in the head?! The thought of that makes me ill. That scary feeling was exactly how I felt when I saw the principal spanking a boy. I still remember it vividly. Lucky for me that is the only time I ever saw a student hit or spanked.

I agree with you myown in very few and extreme cases - a light spank on the bottom once, under certain circumstances can sometimes send a message that they are not hearing. I am not a proponent of spanking as a form of punishment normally, but depending on the child and the circumstance it can be effective. It is something to use only in rare cases and also depending on the child - each child is different so what ever works as long as the punishment is not severe.

Well the one response I can say about how you would feel about a boss hitting you, is I would feel the same if my boss gave me a time out and most people believe that time outs are acceptable forms of punishments for children. It is more about what is appropriate for the age of the child - and there is a definite difference between what would be effective for a child depending on age.

Sofia - my one concern with that even if the school says you sign in agreement to use paddling on your child, is your child is still being exposed to paddling by witnessing other children. I think this can be harmful as well.

Linkat, that was all I was saying. DL was too much generalizing in my opinion.
Hitting a child in head, or beating a child in real meaning is something no one normal can approve and there is no extreme case where that could be approved.
And, of course, I am using it very early like most of parents I believe. Because, with children aged 4-5 years you will come to a conflict at least once or twice a week, there is no doubt in that - and I spanked her maybe 4-5 times in all her life