When do we cease to exist?

Quote:

Neologist said: The resurrection promise does not apply to all

Ha ha, so according to you JW's, Jesus was fibbing when he said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die....All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 11:26, John 5:28/29)

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Neologist wrote:

The resurrection promise does not apply to all

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Ha ha, so according to you JW's, Jesus was fibbing when he said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die....All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 11:26, John 5:28/29)

Of course Jesus spoke the truth. So did Adam and Eve believe in Jesus? I'll pin you down on that question sooner or later,

You may sashay all you want.

2 Replies

@neologist,

Ha ha, he seems very keen not to answer your question.

Neo 1 - 0 Romeo

Come on Mick down but not out eh?

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Neologist wrote:
The resurrection promise does not apply to all

Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Ha ha, so according to you JW's, Jesus was fibbing when he said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die....All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 11:26, John 5:28/29)
Of course Jesus spoke the truth. So did Adam and Eve believe in Jesus? I'll pin you down on that question sooner or later,

You may sashay all you want.

Serious question neo. Did God know that "He'd" have to create Jesus at the time "He" created Adam and Eve? If so, then why would "He" have created Adam and Eve? If not, then would "He" really be an all knowing God?

1 Reply

@mikeymojo,

mikeymojo wrote:

Serious question neo. Did God know that "He'd" have to create Jesus at the time "He" created Adam and Eve? If so, then why would "He" have created Adam and Eve? If not, then would "He" really be an all knowing God?

Remember that Jesus was God's first born. He existed in heaven before all creation. Read Proverbs chapter 8.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

mikeymojo wrote:
Serious question neo. Did God know that "He'd" have to create Jesus at the time "He" created Adam and Eve? If so, then why would "He" have created Adam and Eve? If not, then would "He" really be an all knowing God?
Remember that Jesus was God's first born. He existed in heaven before all creation. Read Proverbs chapter 8.

I would think something that important would've popped up somewhere in Genesis, maybe right after "In the beginning there was God". Why not mention His first real act of creation was that of His Son?

1 Reply

@mikeymojo,

There are several passages in the Bible that indicate witnesses to the creation of man. The first is at Genesis 1:26

Quote:

Then God said: “Let us make man in our image ....

(Emphasis mine)
Then, in chapter 3 God speaks of the agent who will bruise Satan in the head.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

There are several passages in the Bible that indicate witnesses to the creation of man. The first is at Genesis 1:26
Quote:
Then God said: “Let us make man in our image ....
(Emphasis mine)
Then, in chapter 3 God speaks of the agent who will bruise Satan in the head.

All that tells me is that God and His witnesses are Men, if Man is created in their image. It doesn't explain Adam, Eve, Life, and Sin. It doesn't explain why Jesus was needed in the first place. I wonder what God would've done if He were in Adam or Eve's place. Then again He was in a way, in spirit, the whole time. What if God wanted this and forgave everyone beforehand? That seems logical if God exists rather than God fighting a war with His creations, creations He lost control over. If that's even possible.

1 Reply

@mikeymojo,

neologist wrote:

There are several passages in the Bible that indicate witnesses to the creation of man. The first is at Genesis 1:26
Quote:
Then God said: “Let us make man in our image ....

mikeymojo wrote:

All that tells me is that God and His witnesses are Men, if Man is created in their image. It doesn't explain Adam, Eve, Life, and Sin. It doesn't explain why Jesus was needed in the first place. I wonder what God would've done if He were in Adam or Eve's place. Then again He was in a way, in spirit, the whole time. What if God wanted this and forgave everyone beforehand? That seems logical if God exists rather than God fighting a war with His creations, creations He lost control over. If that's even possible.

You have made many points. I'll take just a few:
Our having been in God's image most likely means we have his qualities of love, justice, wisdom, and will, not that God has fingernails.

When you ask what God would have done had he been in Adam's place, are you asking what would lead him to choosing a course he had been told would end in death?
Good question. There must have been more involved. Satan offered a reward by promising they would be like God, knowing good and bad. Scholars (and a2k members) have debated hotly over the meaning of this 'reward'. IMO, it represents an usurpation of God's right to set standards for his creation. Instead of their perfect internal conscience, they wished freedom to make their own moral choices.

There are other things involved, including the fact that Satan lied by telling them they would not die. But, I've already used more than my usual allotment of words so I'll retire my exegesis for now.

1 Reply

@neologist,

If God were God, then Satan would've only been doing what he was supposed to be doing. Can anything really break God's control other than God giving up control? Logically, I can't think of how anything could. It's God! And why would God cast Satan to the same place He created Man? Horrible plan if He didn't actually want any of this happen.

1 Reply

Quote:

Neologist said:@RF- So did Adam and Eve believe in Jesus? I'll pin you down on that question sooner or later

The Adam/Eve story was written in Genesis centuries before Jesus was born, so how could they believe in him? Your question therefore breaks debating etiquette by making no sense and therefore requires no answer.. Smile

Why are you JW's so obsessed with Adam/Eve anyway?
They might never even have existed at all except in an abstract metaphorical way as has already been pointed out by Eva.. Smile

(Eva said: I don't believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I consider it an allegory.)

You said- "I'm no genius..One of my main reasons for posting here is to sharpen my understanding" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)

So LEARN!-
Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb 12:2)

3 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

And yet you show no interest in becoming anything like him. It is one thing to spout his words, another completely to follow his example.

0 Replies

Quote:

Calamity said:@RF- And yet you show no interest in becoming anything like him. It is one thing to spout his words, another completely to follow his example.

Ha ha, atheists who spout quotes from Dawkins pseudo-science books don't have to get college degrees to be like him , so neither do I or anybody else have to sign up for theology degrees to be able to quote from the Bible.. Smile

Jesus is simple to understand-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

So if you JW's such as you and Neologist can't understand him without trying to twist his words, you've got problems.. Wink

JW's theme song-

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

You speak so much **** Romeo. I will not explain my position to you again.

I am not talking about knowledge. I am talking about qualities. You have proven to be racist, sexist, arrogant, haughty, deceptive, lover of violence, twisting the words of your bible to suit your own "cockamime teachings". You have done more to discredit your so called teacher and his teachings in a few months than Atheists could do in a lifetime

In short, You're an idiot.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Neologist said:@RF- So did Adam and Eve believe in Jesus? I'll pin you down on that question sooner or later

The Adam/Eve story was written in Genesis centuries before Jesus was born, so how could they believe in him? Your question therefore breaks debating etiquette by making no sense and therefore requires no answer..
Why are you JW's so obsessed with Adam/Eve anyway?
They might never even have existed at all except in an abstract metaphorical way as has already been pointed out by Eva..
(Eva said: I don't believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I consider it an allegory.)

You said- "I'm no genius..One of my main reasons for posting here is to sharpen my understanding" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)

So LEARN!-
Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb 12:2)

Whose to say Jesus isn't an allegory as well Romeo? Or anyone in the bible? No more than an explanation of why things happen in a human sense of understanding.

0 Replies

Quote:

Calamity huffed:@RF- You have proven to be racist, sexist, arrogant, haughty, deceptive, lover of violence, twisting the words of your bible to suit your own "cockamime teachings"

Tell it to my fans 'cos my ears ain't a-listening.. Smile

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1 Reply

Quote:

Mikey said: Whose to say Jesus isn't an allegory as well Romeo? Or anyone in the bible? No more than an explanation of why things happen in a human sense of understanding

Jesus's credentials to prove he existed are pretty good.. Smile

For a start his arrival was foretold centuries before just as he said -
"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

And when he arrived he didn't skulk in some underground hideout, he went on the road all over Israel for 3 long years in front of the people and the Roman garrison, that's a lot of eyewitnesses -
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37)

And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)
Later the gospels were written by-
"eyewitnesses and ministers of the word" (Luke 1:2)

Even the Koran written some 600 years later dare not deny Jesus was something special:- "Allah.. exalted some messengers above others and gave miracles to Jesus the son of Mary and strengthened him with the holy spirit" (Koran 2:253)

So I'd say putting our money on Jesus as having been a real live flesh-and-blood dood is a pretty sure bet, right Kid?
"Right!"

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1 Reply

@mikeymojo,

mikeymojo wrote:

If God were God, then Satan would've only been doing what he was supposed to be doing. Can anything really break God's control other than God giving up control? Logically, I can't think of how anything could. It's God! And why would God cast Satan to the same place He created Man? Horrible plan if He didn't actually want any of this happen.

Your argument would make some sense had we been designed as puppets. But we have free will, as does the one called Satan.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The Adam/Eve story was written in Genesis centuries before Jesus was born, so how could they believe in him? Your question therefore breaks debating etiquette by making no sense and therefore requires no answer..
Why are you JW's so obsessed with Adam/Eve anyway?
They might never even have existed at all except in an abstract metaphorical

Jesus existed before Adam and Eve

Quote:

(Colossians 1:15, 16) . . .He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Also read Proverbs, chapter 20.
But that is not the point. If you deny Adam and Eve's existence, then you deny God's word. Surely Jesus believed in the Genesis account.

Quote:

(John 8:44) . . .YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. . .

You refuse to answer my question about Adam and Eve's current condition because to do so would force you to admit we are mortal.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Lillian - "Mick please come back..it's nice having you on the board"

Have you tried going back, Romeo. Or are you banned?

0 Replies

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