31
   

When do we cease to exist?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2014 09:41 pm
@Foofie,
I agree, Foofie, but I also think (in an unexplainable way) that we are not just "agents" with identities; we are ultimately the totality of Reality. I never began and I will never end, but this "I" is not the identifiable "me"; it is the Universe of which I am merely one of a virtual infinity of manifestations.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2014 09:45 pm
@Foofie,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Note that the "natural death process" applies only to the human body,
not to the person himself or herself.


David
Foofie wrote:
Sorry to rain on your parade, so to speak, but a person is only his/her human body, plus brain. There is no duality of mind existing beyond the body and its brain. Believe what you want, but it is as preposterous as believing in being Raptured Up before the Tribulations, in my scientific opinion.
That is incorrect.





David
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Feb, 2014 09:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You never didn't answer my question.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Feb, 2014 04:08 pm
@Germlat,
WHICH answer don t u wanna know ???
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Feb, 2014 09:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
From a theist's standpoint, is it appropriate to extend life if a person is in a permanent vegetative state? If so, what is the benefit?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Feb, 2014 10:51 pm
@Germlat,
LIFE is not in any way affected by that,
but being stuck inside a defective shell, is an inconvenience;
e.g, my friend Donald 's human body is visually impaired and too fat.

Different theists might well have differing views on the subject. I dunno.

Life goes on whether inside a human body, or out of it.

I 'm not aware of any benefit from living in a vegetative condition.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 07:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I agree there is no benefit to the person in the vegetative state.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 09:57 am
In the weeks before my 76-yr-old mother died of thyroid complications in 1999 she was like a vegetable, sitting in her chair staring blankly out the window, and although her heart was beating and she was breathing, there was nobody at home.
I looked at her and thought "She's not in that body any more, she's gone".
We got her into hospital and she went into a coma and died 5 days later.
A widow
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 10:03 am
@Germlat,
Responding to Thomas: About Granny who gets the appendicitis under these circumstances, I'm curious to know how do you think this situation should be handled? Should Granny be euthanized at this point? Whatever your answer is could you also validate your response. Thanks.
A widow
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 10:30 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo, I know what you mean about "She's not in her body anymore." I"m an RN and see this often. It's interesting to wonder what's going on in the patients consciousness, rather it is cerebral or spiritual. We can only imagine. I like to think that the person is kind of "not home" as you say. That in the process of their celestial exit, I think that this limbo period is a necessary private experience. Who knows what really goes on in their consciousness when they are "not home," or half here and half there. But I have seen where a patients die peacefully with circumstances that seem to facilitate their movement to go. As if everything is OK now. Like once a patient was in a coma, amazingly hanging on for weeks. We couldn't believe it. But when her son finally spent some private time talking to her (don't know what he said, but he was pretty tearful) she peacefuly passed away within a short time. I've heard other stories of similar situations. So I have come to the conclusion that the "not home disposition" or that limbo period is necessary for their crossing over. Like waiting to reslove unfinished bussiness. Or maybe their deepest sub-conscious is reviewing their Life experience while here on earth. Or maybe in the case of that son I just wrote about, maybe the patient, his mother, in her "not home" dispostion was able to see more internally within her son's spirit that HE needed to talk to her from his heart. When that occured she then felt the freedom to go. Everyones time table is different.
The sky is the limit, I guess, with ideas and scientific calculations of what is and what is not. I can't prove my theory. . . wish I could. . . . it's just a comforting imaginary thought.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 11:04 am
@A widow,
Very good, Widow. My wife and my brother died painfully (both of cancer). I wish their medical staffs had been freer and more disposed to making those deaths painless. That's all I ask; death itself has no negative value for me (see my signature line) except when it comes to youngsters who have not had much of a chance to experience life (which is why I hate war).
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 11:43 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Very good, Widow. My wife and my brother died painfully (both of cancer). I wish their medical staffs had been freer and more disposed to making those deaths painless. That's all I ask; death itself has no negative value for me (see my signature line) except when it comes to youngsters who have not had much of a chance to experience life






(which is why I hate war).
What do u recommend
when war is brought upon u (e.g., Pearl Harbor or the World Trade Center)??
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 12:56 pm
@A widow,
There is a difference between euthanasia and the prolongation of life. I believe in providing comfort measures only at that point.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2014 07:57 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Nevertheless, I HATE it. But think of all the wars that are NOT absolutely necessary, unless we consider the profits derived from the manufacture of weapons and competition for natural resources absolutely necessary. And we might keep in mind that those who die do not share in the profits of war. Instead they are usually young enough to be fooled into thinking they are dying for ideals like liberty and freedom.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 12:46 am
@Germlat,
Most folks don't realize that the Bible says when you're dead, you're dead.

Here's an example written by Solomon at Ecclesiastes 9:5,6:
Quote:
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 01:58 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Most folks don't realize that the Bible says when you're dead, you're dead.
Well, now we know from experience
that death is only an idle superstition,
so it does not matter what it says.





David
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 02:00 am
Quote:
Neologist said: Most folks don't realize that the Bible says when you're dead, you're dead.
Here's an example written by Solomon at Ecclesiastes 9:5,6:
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun"

Solomon was speaking 900 years before Jesus was born, but when Jesus arrived he corrected him by telling us many times that there's a heaven and hell where the soul goes to after the body dies.
For example he said to the chap dying on the cross next to him "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with in Paradise" (Luke 23:42)
So Neo please tell us who we should believe, Solomon or Jesus?
Also, I thought you Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there IS an afterlife, so are you contradicting them or what?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 02:08 am
@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:
Neologist said: Most folks don't realize that the Bible says when you're dead, you're dead.
Here's an example written by Solomon at Ecclesiastes 9:5,6:
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun"
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Solomon was speaking 900 years before Jesus was born, but when Jesus arrived he corrected him by telling us many times that there's a heaven and hell where the soul goes to after the body dies.
For example he said to the chap dying on the cross next to him "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with in Paradise" (Luke 23:42)
So Neo please tell us who we should believe, Solomon or Jesus?
Also, I thought you Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there IS an afterlife, so are you contradicting them or what?
A lot of people have returned from death
in hospitals. Thay 've described it. We need not theorize about it.





David
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 04:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Shakesp's Hamlet called death "The undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveller returns", and the jury's still out on whether people really do return after near-death experiences and stuff.
Incidentally when Louise Fletcher dies of a heart attack in 'Brainstorm', we get a "soul cam" view of what happens next-

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Feb, 2014 05:08 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Shakesp's Hamlet called death
"The undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveller returns",
and the jury's still out on whether people really
do return after near-death experiences and stuff.
The jury is not out
for those of us who have gotten out of our human bodies.


Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Incidentally when Louise Fletcher dies of a heart attack in 'Brainstorm',
we get a "soul cam" view of what happens next-
That is not authentic.
 

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