31
   

When do we cease to exist?

 
 
PhilipOSopher
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 09:14 am
@Germlat,
This must have been mentioned before, but have you guys heard Bertrand Russell's argument against belief in an afterlife/survival of a mind?
According to him, you cannot have a mind without a body, in the same way that you cannot have a river without a riverbed. So if by dying the body (riverbed) were removed from the mind (water) then we would no longer have the totality of a person - we'd just have a big 'mass of water' rather than a complete river. Therefore, if the mind is what defines the personal state of existence, on death this personal existence ceases.
However, if we continued to apply the river analogy, we would still have the water mass regardless of the riverbed. Could we still then have the existence of a similar 'mind mass' after the removal of the body - an individual mind in a different form to what we know?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 09:32 am
@PhilipOSopher,
PhilipOSopher wrote:

This must have been mentioned before, but have you guys heard Bertrand Russell's argument against belief in an afterlife/survival of a mind?
According to him, you cannot have a mind without a body, in the same way that you cannot have a river without a riverbed. So if by dying the body (riverbed) were removed from the mind (water) then we would no longer have the totality of a person - we'd just have a big 'mass of water' rather than a complete river. Therefore, if the mind is what defines the personal state of existence, on death this personal existence ceases.
However, if we continued to apply the river analogy, we would still have the water mass regardless of the riverbed. Could we still then have the existence of a similar 'mind mass' after the removal of the body - an individual mind in a different form to what we know?


Bertrand Russell...when contemplating this issue...should have practiced using the words, "I really do not know...all I can do is blindly guess."

His blind guess is interesting...and may be right...which is to say, it may be wrong.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 09:37 am
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
What is death?
It is an illusion.


Germlat wrote:
Most medical experts experts would agree death occurs when the brain dies.
That applies to death of a man's vehicle,
like his shoes or his car, when thay have worn out,
not the man himself or herself.

Those experts are mechanics for that vehicle
and thay join in the error of mistaken identity
that conflates a man with his or her human body.
The mechanic's customer is not the vehicle upon which he is working.
The customer gets inside the vehicle and uses it, while it still works.



Germlat wrote:
Although the body can be maintained alive through a series of interventions,
if the brain is no longer viable, a human being is pronounced clinically dead.
Definitionally, human beings have human bodies.
When the latter loses its functionality, then u no longer have a human being,
but his conscious life continues. Whether he has a human body has nothing to do
with whether he remains alive. Let's not confuse the human body with the man.



Germlat wrote:
Without a viable central operating unit,
a human being is no longer an entity unto itself but a series of parts.

Without the brain there is no mind.
That is false.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 10:22 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Germlat wrote:
What is death?
It is an illusion.


How do you know that, David? Or is it a blind guess about REALITY?

0 Replies
 
room109
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:00 am
@Germlat,
ok, well i think debate is pointless, but if you want to improve your skillfullness in debate for practical manor it is more than just debateing, i think i can help if you want some assistance, but first tell me your moral frame work so i will not offend you, lol..

but this thinking or that statement does not assume anything..
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:09 am
@room109,
First demonstrate your rhetorical skill; then we will gather at your feet for instruction.
room109
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:39 am
@neologist,
i respect you and i have no pride, i will not allow for that certain skill to be unleashed at a time like this. discipline must be maintained.

peace and love.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:40 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

First demonstrate your rhetorical skill; then we will gather at your feet for instruction.


Who is this new addition?
room109
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:41 am
@neologist,
if you are angered, and if by negligence i commited a mistake in that post please forgive me.

room109
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 11:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
do not drool with desire demon!

or did i misspeak?

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 12:02 pm
@room109,
room109 wrote:

do not drool with desire demon!


Ahhh...okay.


Quote:


or did i misspeak?




Beats me. I do not understand what you just said.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 05:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I want to know who desire demon is...sounds enticing!
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 07:29 pm
@Frank Apisa,
neologist wrote:
First demonstrate your rhetorical skill; then we will gather at your feet for instruction.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Who is this new addition?
It's me. Frank! neo! Yer old pal.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 07:31 pm
@room109,
room109 wrote:
if you are angered, and if by negligence i commited a mistake in that post please forgive me.
No offense taken. But you did make an error of omission by claiming to offer assistance without demonstrating skill.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 04:45 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
First demonstrate your rhetorical skill; then we will gather at your feet for instruction.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Who is this new addition?
It's me. Frank! neo! Yer old pal.


I was asking you the question about the guy to whom you were requesting a demonstration of his rhetorical skills, Neo.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 07:03 am
@Frank Apisa,
Dunno. I knocked on #109 and no one was home.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 08:42 am
@room109,
room109 wrote:

ok, well i think debate is pointless, but if you want to improve your skillfullness in debate for practical manor it is more than just debateing, i think i can help if you want some assistance, but first tell me your moral frame work so i will not offend you, lol..

but this thinking or that statement does not assume anything..

What makes you think I require your assistance or approval lol: I simply enjoy exploring topics...sometimes, I even gain insight from others and change my mind..have you read my posts on this topic? That would tell you a lot about my
beliefs. Moral framework? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 08:51 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Dunno. I knocked on #109 and no one was home.

Mr. Green Laughing
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 09:03 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Death is no illusion. I've seen it happen and haven't seen anyone come back yet.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 09:10 am
@Germlat,
I 've had it happen to me 2ice and I 'm baaaaak.
It is illusionary.
 

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