31
   

When do we cease to exist?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:01 am
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
I would love to believe that...if I only could.
Perpetual consciousness has almost universal appeal, does it not? I believe all humans have a desire for that in their hearts. But, I would find no comfort in the prospect of an endless succession of disconnected lives. What I do find endearing is the promise recorded at Genesis 1:28. I know not everyone accepts the bible account. But I think most would embrace the hope of an indefinite life span with perfect health and freedom from crime, if it were true.

Which it is.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:10 am
@neologist,
Germlat wrote:
I would love to believe that...if I only could.
neologist wrote:
Perpetual consciousness has almost universal appeal, does it not? I believe all humans have a desire for that in their hearts. But, I would find no comfort in the prospect of an endless succession of disconnected lives. What I do find endearing is the promise recorded at Genesis 1:28. I know not everyone accepts the bible account. But I think most would embrace the hope of an indefinite life span with perfect health and freedom from crime, if it were true.

Which it is.
I favor the way that it is expressed
by Deepak Chopra, M.D.: people believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but we are spiritual beings, with occasional human experiences.

This applies whether conscious life is incarnate or not.
When u have an out-of-body experience, u ex-carnate,
but your consciousness does not end. U remain alive before, during and after incarnation.
In other words, incarnate use of a human body has nothing to do with whether u r alive or not.




David
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
What about George's questions, David. I am interested in your answers also.

Quote:
What made you sure you were really out-of-body as opposed to your mind
playing tricks on you?

This isn't to start an argument. I'm genuinely curious.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:18 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I favor the way that it is expressed
by Deepak Chopra, M.D.: people believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but we are spiritual beings, with occasional human experiences.


How does Deepak Chopra know that we are not human beings with occasional spiritual experiences, but instead spiritual beings with occasional human experiences?

Sounds like a blind guess to me.


neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I like my hope better.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:09 am
@cicerone imposter,
I completely agree.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
When the son of God himself said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
why shouldn't we believe him?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:22 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Why should you? Jesus is a fictional character created by one human tribe in the old world. Other tribes created their own gods, and their god is just as 'creative' as the god of jesus. Many people pray to their own god, believing with their whole heart and soul that their god exists.

How many gods did humans create? I lost count.
0 Replies
 
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:24 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Has any of his followers found eternal life. No one has claimed it to the public.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:34 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
When the son of God himself said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
why shouldn't we believe him?
I believe Jesus, Romeo.
But Satan told Eve "You certainly will not die."(Genesis 3:4) And, we know he lied, right?

Do you see a reason for further study here?
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:45 am
Quote:
Cicerone said: Jesus is a fictional character created by one human tribe in the old world.

Prove it..Smile
He didn't hole up in some underground hideout, he travelled all over Israel for 3 long years in front of the 5 million population of Israel plus the Roman garrison, that's a lot of eyewitnesses -
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)
And-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37)


Heck he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)
Later the gospels were written by- "eyewitnesses and ministers of the word" (Luke 1:2)

In other words he was TOO BIG to have been a myth..Wink
"Jesus went about all the cities and villages" (Matt 9:35)
http://imageshack.us/a/img694/8567/8tcv.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:49 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Seek any historic source about religion on the internet.
0 Replies
 
room109
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
@Germlat,
what is your reason for asking?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 02:39 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

What about George's questions, David. I am interested in your answers also.

Quote:
What made you sure you were really out-of-body as opposed to your mind
playing tricks on you?

This isn't to start an argument. I'm genuinely curious.

Lemme get this straight:
u wanna know whether
I 'm just imagining that u exist
and post in A2K ?? How I figure out that u r real??
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 02:48 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
I favor the way that it is expressed
by Deepak Chopra, M.D.: people believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but we are spiritual beings, with occasional human experiences.


How does Deepak Chopra know that we are not human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but instead spiritual beings
with occasional human experiences?

Sounds like a blind guess to me.
When u get out of your vehicle (referring to your human body)
u get a sense that u don t really need it and u recognize intuitively
that the real u is immutable n permanent. Its like knowing that u r alive.
How do u know that u r alive, Frank ? Just a guess ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 03:17 am
@George,
George wrote:
What made you sure you were really out-of-body
as opposed to your mind playing tricks on you?
Sorry that I failed to see your post.
Is the entire Universe an illusion of consciousness ?
"Is all that we see, and seem, but a dream within a dream?" Ed A. Poe

I accepted it on a prima facie and intuitive basis.
Its not as if I were alleging
that I had an out-of-body experience while asleep, possibly dreaming.
During most of my out-of-body experiences, I was actively engaged
in conversation, taking testimony from witnesses in court,
or conversing with others elsewhere.

How do u know that u r alive now,
as distinct from your mind playing tricks on u ?
I relied on my observation of the world from 2 different angles,
being in 2 places at once. Some out-of-body experiences
have allegedly been proven by knowledge of remote events.

Some people have been disinherited
in retaliation for a relative bad-mouthing a testator in the hospital,
while he was in a state of human death, during which his consciousness
has (discarnate) seen n heard the defamation.

After returning to human life, decedent arose & betook himself
to the office of his estate lawyer n drew a new will. There was no denying
the denunciation of (temporary) decedent, because the other relatives were witnesses.

In a week, I 'm going to California for a convention www.IANDS.org
of folks whose human bodies died (molted off) in hospitals
and of medical doctors who have studied temporary death
of the human body and written about it. Some of those
medical doctors have had their own death experiences.



George wrote:
This isn't to start an argument. I'm genuinely curious.
"Argument is the piecing together of evidentiary fact
in combination with the ordinary rules of logic and rhetoric."
There is nothing rong with argument.





David
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 06:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

What about George's questions, David. I am interested in your answers also.

Quote:
What made you sure you were really out-of-body as opposed to your mind
playing tricks on you?

This isn't to start an argument. I'm genuinely curious.

Lemme get this straight:
u wanna know whether
I 'm just imagining that u exist
and post in A2K ?? How I figure out that u r real??


No.

I am interested in the answer to the question asked.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 06:13 am
@room109,
To discuss the topic with others....for the sake of debate.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 06:17 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
I favor the way that it is expressed
by Deepak Chopra, M.D.: people believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but we are spiritual beings, with occasional human experiences.


How does Deepak Chopra know that we are not human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but instead spiritual beings
with occasional human experiences?

Sounds like a blind guess to me.
When u get out of your vehicle (referring to your human body)
u get a sense that u don t really need it and u recognize intuitively
that the real u is immutable n permanent.


So...how does Chopra know what I asked about, David?



Quote:

Its like knowing that u r alive.


Except that it may just be an illusion...or a delusion.

So...are you saying that he does not really know...but is just guessing?


Quote:

How do u know that u r alive, Frank ?


What is actually going on, David...may be completely different from what "I" think is going on. But whatever this "I" is...it simply is.

To suppose that everything that happens to the "I" is that same thing, would be a guess.


Quote:
Just a guess ?


It seems to me that Chopra is just guessing with that bit of supposedly clever wisdom...and people who think they are having out-of-body experiences are almost certainly guessing also.

But you still haven't answered the question, David.

I am pretty sure (not positive, but pretty sure) I know the answer. (You do not know if your mind is just playing tricks on you when you suppose you are having an out-of-body experience.)

Think about it a bit more.



0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 06:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
. . . I relied on my observation of the world from 2 different angles,
being in 2 places at once . . .
Fascinating. Thanks, David.
0 Replies
 
 

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