The Trinity (a discussion)

Ummmm, you're thinking about this wrong.

Suppose I said a fierce powerful physical deity named Ungorr the Untamed existed. I have utter faith in him. His buff muscles can smash stones. His charming smile gets all the ladies. And when he winks, people DIE!!!

Now, I only have a thin pamphlet know as Ungorr's Guide to Being Sexy. And this photo that looks doctored. But I have absolute proof from this that Ungorr exists and isn't an idol. What, no?

This btw, is the situation for Islam, yet people think Muhammad's historical. Yet outside Islamic literature nothing at all exists as proof of Islam. They instead had Jews attacked by the Arabs but they didn't really seem to have a named leader until centuries later. Almost as though the legend was made up piecemeal by a bunch of Arabs. This would explain the contradictions for sure.

That Jesus does have secondhand and even hostile evidence of his existence is extremely good proof of him. Even the claim that Jesus's resurrection is somehow an attempt to preserve their Messiah doesn't really work. The Jews hated the idea of Jesus being the Messiah, not just in the Bible either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu
Yeshu is actually an acronym.

Y
E
S
H
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ימח שמו וזכרו(נו) (Yimach Shemo V'Zichro[no])
The Babylonian Talmud, when it mentions this person, says he is a sorceror, and says that he is boiling in excrement even now. They have him doing stupid miracles and generally being a pervert. Yeshu the sorceror is hanged on Passover. That is when they don't omit his name entirely from scrolls. He's basically held up by Jews as a bad example. Yeah, hostile witnesses. That's not the only one. There are a number of Roman witnesses who hated his guts too. It cannot be that Jesus was a Roman myth to screw with the Jews, because he effectively screwed over Rome over the next two centuries. Something they planned wouldn't be able to do that.

The more non-canonical rumors about Jesus, the more certain he did exist, and that people wanted to distort who he was. You don't try to smear and erase someone who never existed in the first place.

There never will be a serious discussion of the Trinity unless Honesty is held to.

And that is RARELY the case!

Bumping this topic cuz yesterday was Trinity Sunday.

The facts of true God worship history are as follows:

From Moses on up until this very day, the Israelite religion serve the Abrahamic God. A single being God= YHWH.
That means when Jesus attended their places of worship he was taught, served and worshipped a single being God=YHWH, as was every bible writer. Its the God they all taught as well.

God has several names in the Hebrew Bible including Elohim which is plural.

Psalms 82: 6; 'You are gods,' I said; 'all of you are sons of the Most High.' We are a family of gods under one Supreme God.

Psalms 82: 1; God presides in the heavenly council; in the assembly of the gods he gives his decision:

Genesis 1: 26; And now let 'US' make man in 'OUR' image, etc.

"Us" and "our" are both first person singular when used by royalty or gods.

Exodus 20:5; You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for 'I', the Lord your God, am a jealous God.

Isaiah 44:6; “This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: 'I' am the first and 'I' am the last; apart from “ME” there is no God.



So, you 'BELIEVE' that when God said; "Let 'US' make man in 'OUR' image" he was not referring to his angelic servants, but to the singularity that is HE? Am I correct?

I do not do "believing"...but I know that both the royal and grammatical forms are used in Bibles...just as they are in proclamations from monarchs. There is no way to be sure what the inventor of this particular myth meant, but the translators of the works could easily have meant to use the Royal "we" and "our"...because the use of "I" and "my" in this instance have a grating sound.

There certainly is nothing wrong with YOU conceiving of the issue as you choose. Arguing the point is like arguing against the idea of why anyone even considered that the king's horses could put Humpty Dumpty together again.

Elohim is not a name. Its a Hebrew word that carries various meanings. The Hebrews did not use it as plural for the true living God, Some try to say it was the name of a Cannanite God prior to the Hebrew use of the word.

Let us= YHWH(Jehovah) and his master worker= Jesus( Prov 8)

Small g god is not calling that one a true God as YHWH is. Small g god cannot even create a single blade of grass, the true God created all of creation.

You seem quite angry.

This religious stuff doesn't seem to be doing you any good.

Have you thought of knocking it on the head and taking up woodwork or pottery instead?

Why would you say i was angry? I just share the facts of reality.

This is the first evidence of the Trinity.

I may be incorrect but I have a feeling that he is a Jehovah Witness. I don't perceive him as being angry. He merely has strong beliefs.

Let us= YHWH and his master worker( Jesus)= the one who was beside him during creation. The one whom God grew especially fond of. Tells all he was created at Proverbs 8. It is him speaking. This is the being God sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal.

Solomon was given great wisdom by God. If you look at the beginning of Proverbs 8 you will see that wisdom is speaking. Although Jesus was indeed quite wise, Solomon is not talking about Him in Proverbs 8.

It begins about wisdom, but there is no doubt, Jesus is Gods master worker, the one whom God created all other things through. The NT teaches-Jesus became wisdom for us. Verse24--i was brought forth as with labor pains(Created direct first and last= the only begotten son)= the firstborn of all creation-Coll 1:15