Destroy My Belief System, Please!

@Frank Apisa,

Gotta go pick up the aunts. See ya in a few!

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Why do need "qualifiers" frankie boy? If it's logic, but you're unsure about reality, what difference does it make?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Why do need "qualifiers" frankie boy? If it's logic, but you're unsure about reality, what difference does it make?

I take it you are Clarence Thomas...and Olivier is actually Antonin Scalia. If it is the other way around...clue us in.

I doubt you could recognize logic if you stepped in it.

Send in the clowns:

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/clown.gif

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/vil2-joke.gif

http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/clown/p0815.gif

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/vil2_joker3.gif

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@Frank Apisa,

Yours is still a free country. You can say whatever crosses your mind. You can even say that you are a Zimbabweo-Korean on your way to the capital of France for a gang bang of 70-something homosexuals. Why not? It might even be true, with (or without, I don’t remember) the “qualifier”…

Quote:

What you have to be dealing with...and what you should be spending more time with...is why you allow me to upset you as much as you do.

That’s quite revealing, given that you project stuff onto me all the time, and that you happen to write longish angry posts with lots of exclamation points and bizarre emoticons in them... You have anger management issues, Frank?

You come across as very insecure, maybe because you expect too much of yourself. You can’t expect to be as articulate and wise as the best among us, Frank. That’s just setting yourself up for failure…

My advice is to reflect upon your deep-rooted lack of assurance and self-esteem and upon all these doubts that eat away at your psyche, and then to set aside those doubts that are about things you cannot control anyway (e.g. “Does time exist?”) in order to focus on the issues you can actually exert control upon (e.g. “Should I bring my bigoudis to Paris?”). I hope this helps…

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Yours is still a free country. You can say whatever crosses your mind. You can even say that you are a Zimbabweo-Korean on your way to the capital of France for a gang bang of 70-something homosexuals. Why not? It might even be true, with (or without, I don’t remember) the “qualifier”…

And your rambling point is?????

Quote:

Quote:
What you have to be dealing with...and what you should be spending more time with...is why you allow me to upset you as much as you do.

That’s quite revealing, given that you project stuff onto me all the time, and that you happen to write longish angry posts with lots of exclamation points and bizarre emoticons in them... You have anger management issues, Frank?

Not Moi, Olivier. I am one of the most content posters on A2K...and I have the patience of Job with someone like you.

I'm here for the long run. And there is no projection involved in me telling you that you allow me to upset you so.

You have stated quite clearly that you think I do not say anything worth a reply or response...but you continue to reply and respond.

I, on the other hand, have mentioned that I think you are interesting (in a more and more bizarre way)...and I love to reply and respond to you.

One of us is way off track...and his name, supposedly, is Olivier! Wink

Quote:

You come across as very insecure, maybe because you expect too much of yourself. You can’t expect to be as articulate and wise as the best among us, Frank. That’s just setting yourself up for failure…

I don't see anything insecure about me...and most of the people who know me mention that I am one of the most self-assured people they know.

But you may be projecting yourself here, Olivier...and if it makes your life more bearable...by all means think of me as insecure and inarticulate.

Quote:

My advice is to reflect upon your deep-rooted lack of assurance and self-esteem and upon all these doubts that eat away at your psyche, and then to set aside those doubts that are about things you cannot control anyway (e.g. “Does time exist?”) in order to focus on the issues you can actually exert control upon (e.g. “Should I bring my bigoudis to Paris?”). I hope this helps…

I surely does, Olivier. This help confirm that I have you at my disposal. Let's keep this up for as long as possible. Wink

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

By the way...I loved that "Yours" at the beginning of that post!

You are no pushover! Always thinkin' Wink

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

You see? frankie boy picked on your first word "yours." Wow! What revelation - about him!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

C.I.,, you are so far removed from your Asian roots.

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

I should be; I'm third generation American. What in hell do you expect?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You see? frankie boy picked on your first word "yours." Wow! What revelation - about him!

Olivier...he doesn't even realize the significance of that first word. Great sidekick. Don't call him Tonto. He's more of a Sancho Panza! Wink

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

I've been trying to point them to your post on page 18, JL. It might give them some idea of the qualification. But I question whether either can make the leap from what you said to it.

Even die-hard "the world is an illusion" people never jump out in front of speeding tractor trailers!

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

You have stated quite clearly that you think I do not say anything worth a reply or response...but you continue to reply and respond.

Just for the entertainment value and the English practice... Also, I haven't lost all hopes of drawing JNL back into a more interesting discussion about knowledge.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
You have stated quite clearly that you think I do not say anything worth a reply or response...but you continue to reply and respond.

Just for the entertainment value and the English practice... Also, I haven't lost all hopes of drawing JNL back into a more interesting discussion about knowledge.

Sounds good. Sounds real. But there is more to it than that. Your obsession is with trying to disparage me. No problem...I do not mind it. But anyone watching this farce play out recognizes that easily.

But talking about JL...his post was a key...and I told you about that.

The world may NOT be an illusion. The naïve realists may be correct in their guesses about the nature of REALITY.

IF that is the case…IF the universe and existence is NOT an illusion and all is the way it appears to humans is the actuality…then me saying “Paris is the capital of France” and “The name on my birth certificate is Frank Apisa”…is logical and makes sense.

Of course (or as ci would say, of coarse)…the universe and existence MAY BE an illusion. If it is an illusion, it is, as Albert Einstein pointed out, a very persistent illusion.

IF it is an illusion, I (and perhaps you, if there is a “you” out there)have to live in the illusion. We cannot, as I mentioned in an earlier post, simply walk out in front of a speeding tractor trailer, because…well…just “because.” (Do it if you want to try.)

So living in the illusion requires accommodation to the (IF it is so) the elements of the illusion. “I cannot step in front of a speeding tractor trailer or I will get killed” is something essential to maintaining the illusion, if that is what is happening.

In the illusion, IF it exists, that becomes the qualifier.

Insofar as I am living in the illusion, I know Paris is the capital of France; I know the nearest huge town to mine is New York City; I know the name on my birth certificate; I know the questions to many answers on Jeopardy! each night; and I know if I hit my thumb with a hammer it is going to hurt like hell.

There never was a contradiction. What I have said is consistent, logical, not contradictory...and something I have said many times over the years.

This farce with you, Olivier, is something I am enjoying…and will continue to enjoy…but that will not make it any less farce. I actually walk to the computer the moment I come into the house (after golf; taking the aunts where they have to go; or dinner with Nancy in Princeton)…and I immediately look to see if anything is posted in this thread. I'm actually a bit disappointed when there isn't.

I am having a ball…even if Thomas’ OP is just a distant memory. I’ll buy him a beer on the Pan…and he will forgive me.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Oh...and the "English practice" was almost as good as the "your."

Just wanted you to know I am paying attention.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Your obsession is with trying to disparage me

You get at it in each and every one of your posts. As I pointed out some time ago, you much prefer to speculate about other posters' motivations, nationality, gender, etc. etc. than address what they actually say. Now if you dish **** out, you should be able to take it in. Otherwise you’re a sissy.

Quote:

So living in the illusion requires accommodation to the (IF it is so) the elements of the illusion. “I cannot step in front of a speeding tractor trailer or I will get killed” is something essential to maintaining the illusion, if that is what is happening.

The way I see it, I am not capable of inventing this whole universe, therefore I am not. If someone else invents it for me, that someone else is equivalent to a fake god, in that he invented a whole fake world in which he placed me… Such a god would be a fraud, which is really hard to imagine (at least for me). So this issue does not bother me at all. The likelihood of it being the case is IMO negligible.

However, those who believe the world is an illusion should be consistent with their ideas and walk in front of the subway car, or speeding tractor trailer… If they don’t do so, it simply proves that their doubts about the existence of the world are just some minor, unimportant game that they play to pass time. Their mind is in actual fact, in reality bent on surviving as long as possible, because they actually believe very strongly that they are alive in a real world, just like I do. They only pretend to doubt, they toy with the idea that it’s all an illusion, like I imagine once in a while that I am a bird flying in the sky... Relaxing but that’s not philosophy. That’s the day-dreamer’s equivalent to playing “angry birds”.

Another way to look at it, if one feels a bit insecure/half-assed about this stuff, is to use Pascal’s wager, aka game theory (Pascal’s idea was a game theory precursor) and base your take on an analysis of the following cases and their consequence:
1. this world is real and I don’t believe in it --> I miss all the fun and I feel sad sad sad so I commit suicide…
2. this world is real and I believe in it --> that should be ok, though of course this life can be tedious at times and I may wish to daydream that I am a bird, or whatever once in a while…
3. this world is unreal and I don’t believe in it --> I am right, but very very sad, ergo I commit suicide.
4. this world is unreal and I believe it is real --> I am deluded, but what do I care? I am having the same amount of fun and suffering as in case 2, so no big deal.

Based on this I would say that I prefer to have fun, and suffer, than to die or to miss all the fun, so I’ll bet on 2, and if I am wrong it’ll be case 4, which is not a problem...

In any case, I have no need for any qualifier. It's all entirely consistent, unlike your views which are all over the place.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Your obsession is with trying to disparage me

You get at it in each and every one of your posts. As I pointed out some time ago, you much prefer to speculate about other posters' motivations, nationality, gender, etc. etc. than address what they actually say. Now if you dish **** out, you should be able to take it in. Otherwise you’re a sissy.

I'll take all you can give me...and you will tire before I do. That I guarantee. There is no sissy in me...as you will eventually discover.

Quote:

Quote:
So living in the illusion requires accommodation to the (IF it is so) the elements of the illusion. “I cannot step in front of a speeding tractor trailer or I will get killed” is something essential to maintaining the illusion, if that is what is happening.

The way I see it, I am not capable of inventing this whole universe, therefore I am not. If someone else invents it for me, that someone else is equivalent to a fake god, in that he invented a whole fake world in which he placed me… Such a god would be a fraud, which is really hard to imagine (at least for me). So this issue does not bother me at all. The likelihood of it being the case is IMO negligible.

However, those who believe the world is an illusion should be consistent with their ideas and walk in front of the subway car, or speeding tractor trailer… If they don’t do so, it simply proves that their doubts about the existence of the world are just some minor, unimportant game that they play to pass time. Their mind is in actual fact, in reality bent on surviving as long as possible, because they actually believe very strongly that they are alive in a real world, just like I do. They only pretend to doubt, they toy with the idea that it’s all an illusion, like I imagine once in a while that I am a bird flying in the sky... Relaxing but that’s not philosophy. That’s the day-dreamer’s equivalent to playing “angry birds”.

Another way to look at it, if one feels a bit insecure/half-assed about this stuff, is to use Pascal’s wager, aka game theory (Pascal’s idea was a game theory precursor) and base your take on an analysis of the following cases and their consequence:
1. this world is real and I don’t believe in it --> I miss all the fun and I feel sad sad sad so I commit suicide…
2. this world is real and I believe in it --> that should be ok, though of course this life can be tedious at times and I may wish to daydream that I am a bird, or whatever once in a while…
3. this world is unreal and I don’t believe in it --> I am right, but very very sad, ergo I commit suicide.
4. this world is unreal and I believe it is real --> I am deluded, but what do I care? I am having the same amount of fun and suffering as in case 2, so no big deal.

Based on this I would say that I prefer to have fun, and suffer, than to die or to miss all the fun, so I’ll bet on 2, and if I am wrong it’ll be case 4, which is not a problem...

As I said...there were no contradictions in the two quotes you cited, which is probably why you did not point any out...and instead just asserted that the contradictions were self-evident.

But I am not really trying to get through to you on this issue Olivier. I decided long ago that you are immune to reason. Now we are just playing.

I notice you have never answered my challenge to present some instances where you have acknowledged being wrong. I suppose you think that is because you are never wrong, but this thread has pretty much shown that not to be the case. Can you point to any post which essentially acknowledges that you were wrong on anything? I'm not saying they do not exist...but I read almost every post everyone writes...and I've never seen one from you.

Anyway...I am looking forward to more fun and games...which I am sure will be here for all to follow. I think we can both derive enjoyment from this farce...which is probably the best way to handle it.

With all that "believing" nonsense up above...all those choices, I note that you have avoided ever answering the question I have asked almost every time I mention that I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence:

Do you know the true nature of the REALITY of existence?

By the way...I've written several essays on Pascal's wager. I am as unimpressed with it as I am with Occum's Razor. Dime store philosophy as I see it, but for those who think it worthwhile...I say go for it.

I am delighted to see you find value in it.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

frankie boy wrote,

Quote:

Your obsession is with trying to disparage me

frankie boy never disparages anyone; never! ROFLMAO

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

frankie boy wrote,
Quote:
Your obsession is with trying to disparage me

frankie boy never disparages anyone; never! ROFLMAO

No problemo, Clarence!

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

You see? I write a long, issue-driven post and you just shoot back some half-baked ad hominem... So insecure!

Alright, I should really stop this, it's not going anywhere. plus I have already learnt everything I could from the exchange. Diminishing returns on investment I guess.

1 Reply

Destroy My Belief System, Please!

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