Destroy My Belief System, Please!

I am a Catholic and a convert and maybe the main reason is I didn't want just 'my belief system' until I found out if for example Jesus is the Son of God and whether He instituted a Church.

I will not destroy your system but I would tremble to base ultimates on my frailty. You seem comfortable with that, I can not in any way relate to that.
That's just me, not a criticism

I am averse to brocolli but I eat it. The fact of bias has no ultimate ramifications unless you are denying reason the ability to see despite personal feelings about what is seen.

Thomas,

You have the same reasoning as Newman but you appear to reject the conclusion

: “Many a man will live and die upon a dogma: no man will be a martyr for a conclusion . . . . No one, I say, will die for his calculations: he dies for realities.”

Newman followed Jesus and with much suffering became a Catholic after years of fighting Catholicism

Jesus beats any Conjecture...When no one line of argument leads you anywher the sum of many arguments in toto can serve as the start of Faith. But as I said you reject this

Proof that the bible is wrong:
http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm
Let us know the next time you pray for something that has been answered by your god.
BTW, there have been research done on the effectiveness of prayer. It found that prayers that go beyond the third person has no effect. Prayers for self or from family and friends do have an effect. I don't know what they call it, but it seems prayers do work in those limited circumstances. Maybe, a social psychologist can answer the whys.

Then the real question is, Should I take what I know and ignore it because of you?
But then you refuse to take what you know and change because of me.

Bottom Line; You lord your views over everybody else. Okay, you don't believe in prayer. Fine. Who gives a ____

It's possible that facts are always a fiction, just true relative to the absence of the required level of understanding.
This is frustrating, because it means at every juncture understanding is identical to no knowledge, or perhaps the inability to communicate.

You can ignore anything I post on a2k. That's your right. It would be simpler for you to put me on Ignore.

You can ignore anything I post on a2k. That's your right. It would be simpler for you to put me on Ignore.

According to this Washington Times article, 84% of the world population believes in a god.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/dec/23/84-percent-world-population-has-faith-third-are-ch/

BTW, there are five major religions in this world.

That seems to make just about perfect sense to me.
Your (2) is the most fundamental basis for the actual design of the universe.
I phrase your (2) as Maximize joy and minimize suffering in the world.

You can believe in facts even if the balance of evidence does not support it if you have seen something and experienced it yourself. For instance: Aliens or Ghosts. This doesn't mean that what you have seen is real or that you are sane but if you have seen it, you will probably believe it over all other evidence. To be fair there can be other situations that would not be controversial (unbelievable by most) or involve your sanity where you might be swayed to the less logical side.

Relative facts are no fiction...
Phenomena in reality does not diminish its value under relative logic junctures. Per se every phenomena is absolutely true.
An illusion is a true illusion, comes to mind.

Hi there Thomas.

I can't possibly read all these replies so l'll just reply to your OP.

"Believe in facts if the balance of the evidence supports them, and for no other reason."

"Believe in values if acting on them will tend to increase the overall surplus of happiness over suffering, and for no other reason"


1. There's more to life than facts and morals / dogma and morals.
Actually l can't think what else there is.
Maybe: the method by which you do things. For example, making prayer books by cutting down acres of forest where nobody lives. Bad method!

2. The evidence might be wrong. A subset of this is confirmation bias.

3. "Values = good IF total happiness increases."

The most troubling thing is our quest for happiness. Must be more discerning. Free crystal meth for all? That's what you're saying dude.

Sex cult? Great. So when you're 90, nobody wants you. You're worth nothing to the sex cult but overall population is okay with it.



SUMMARY: Your embryonic religion is lacking discernment (incliuding: a concept of method), and discernment comes from wisdom and foresight, which in turn come from, je ne sais quoi. I mean, one doesn't one day wake up and decide to obtain these qualities.

odds based systems don't work because nothing causes something to occur x times causes something to occur again. Relying on observations is different then understanding the process causing what you observe and what occurs next. Not knowing the process means there is no way of ruling out in any way any process for the cause, meaning the configuration of the process. Therefore anything has an equal chance of occurring at any time because there is no way to rule out the any way the process could cause any any possible event to occur. Any possible event means an infinite amount of events, everything needs an opposite of itself to be able to exist, causing opposites to exist in an infinite amount of ways. One opposite is the opposite of something else taking up space, which has an opposite type of space, which together is the opposite of an opposite which together is the opposite of an opposite and so one. For every opposite there is another opposite which always form another opposite which always have an opposite.

hence, when you think you caused happyness the oppossite is equally likely.

Number one leaves my mind at the mercy of 'democracy', whatever the most 'experts' say, I must accept. My own reasoning can be 'voted off the island' at any time that way.

Number two ignores the obvious benefits of delayed gratification.

I never worry about opposites.

your actions could cause non good instead of good based of 50 50 odds, but there is no subjective point worrying.

It’s very risky to ignore contradictions.

I seem to recall you being very vocal about what you saw as contradictions.

I don't understand enough about your belief system to want to destroy it.

But honestly, the only belief systems really needing to be destroyed are ones where the people involved seem arrogant. Having become aware of flaws in your thinking, you should simply address those and move on.

I cannot!

Begging the questions, is absolutely a fallacy, and a real problem for rationalists.

Who gets to decide what there "facts" are that you believe.
Oh, that's right, YOU DO.

I'm getting tired, that's enough.
_____________________________________
Heh! He's the one who says breathing air is a "fact that you only believe"!