Destroy My Belief System, Please!

@Frank Apisa,

Keep being petty then. Keep arguing that I am not male, nor French. Keep telling me what I intended to say even after I clarified a point. Keep bitching about me in your posts to other posters. Keep lying about what I said and did not say. And by all means keep insulting me. If that makes you happy, I couldn't care less.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

When we "declare" victory that is no more than a claim of victory and the basis for a new debate (about who won). What about when one's opponent "concedes" defeat? I think that's when the debate actually ends. But virtually noone ever concedes defeat, the debates go on endlessly--or they just stop, like coitus interruptus.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Keep being petty then.

I cannot "keep" doing something I am not doing.

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Keep arguing that I am not male, nor French.

I told you directly that I "accept" that you are male and French. (Glad I am not handling that problem.) Although I will acknowledge that I think there is much more to the story than you telling. (Only you, however, know how full of bull you are!)

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Keep telling me what I intended to say even after I clarified a point.

I agreed with what you were intending to say...and even acknowledged that I understood what you were apparently trying to say.

You just want to argue.

So...argue. It's cute when you do it.

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Keep bitching about me in your posts to other posters.

Not bitching about you...although if someone mentions you in a post to me...I will comment. Thank you for misrepresenting what is happening.

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Keep lying about what I said and did not say.

I have not lied about what you have said...or have not said. Do make this stuff up yourself...or do you have help?

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And by all means keep insulting me.

Oh, my...have I insulted you. I thought Frenchmen had thicker skin.

Heat...kitchen!

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If that makes you happy, I couldn't care less.

Often...you make me happy, Olivier.

But remember what I said earlier...as a golfer, I often have to laugh at gnats and their buzzing!

0 Replies

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

When we "declare" victory that is no more than a claim of victory and the basis for a new debate (about who won). What about when one's opponent "concedes" defeat? I think that's when the debate actually ends. But virtually noone ever concedes defeat, the debates go on endlessly--or they just stop, like coitus interruptus.

I agree, JL.

But Olivier has "declared" victory in combat that never even existed.

It is a bad habit...and I would hate to see him stuck in it any more than he already is.

If there is an actual debate...with both sides indicating there will be a winner and a loser...then YES...there can be a winner and a loser. I have never suggested otherwise. I respectfully suggest there are VERY FEW of those kinds of things happening on A2K. Mostly we see petty sniping (yeah, I do it too) and nonsense.

In any case, Olivier's declaration of victory over me sounded a lot like Nixon's declaration of victory over the Vietcong.

Empty!

0 Replies

@JLNobody,

Quote:

What about when one's opponent "concedes" defeat? I think that's when the debate actually ends. But virtually noone ever concedes defeat, the debates go on endlessly--or they just stop, like coitus interruptus.

I guess it happens more often on some boards than others, but I have seen posters on A2K gracefully concede defeat.

Another way in which debates are lost, is when a poster realises he lost it, even though he is not admitting to it. We've all been there, at least the most lucid among us.

Finally, another case is where'm a poster lost it -- in the sense that society overwhelmingly agrees that it's over -- yet the poster does not realise it and goes on forever like the Black Knight in Monty Pyton's Holy Grail. These cases are the most frequent.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
What about when one's opponent "concedes" defeat? I think that's when the debate actually ends. But virtually noone ever concedes defeat, the debates go on endlessly--or they just stop, like coitus interruptus.

I guess it happens more often on some boards than others, but I have seen posters on A2K gracefully concede defeat.

Another way in which debates are lost, is when a poster realises he lost it, even though he is not admitting to it. We've all been there, at least the most lucid among us.

Finally, another case is where'm a poster lost it -- in the sense that society overwhelmingly agrees that it's over -- yet the poster does not realise it and goes on forever like the Black Knight in Monty Pyton's Holy Grail. These cases are the most frequent.

Sounds like much ado about nothing, Olivier. A backdoor attempt at saying something you apparently haven't the stomach for saying out straight.

In any case, one way discussions shouldn't end...is with one party simply declaring victory...when there was not even a contest going.

Mostly, we share opinions here.

There is very little in the way of "win/lose" in that situation.

But you are correct, there are some people who simply will not concede the obvious...like you are doing here.

You declared victory in a discussion with me...and you did not even prevail in the discussion, much less come out victorious. But you cannot acknowledge that.

When I am wrong...I acknowledge that I am wrong.

I have never seen you acknowledge that you were wrong anywhere...at any time.

Do you have a few instances where you have?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

This is a good example of where after a declaration of victory the alter begins a new debate contesting that declaration....

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

This is a good example of where after a declaration of victory the alter begins a new debate contesting that declaration....

Indeed it is, JL.

Although in this case it is not so much contesting the declaration of victory...as it is contesting whether or not there was something being contested originally.

Mostly, we have been offering opinions...and guesses.

How, exactly, does one "defeat"..."this is my guess"...or "this is my opinion?"

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Oh I nailed you alright when I proved that everything you say is a "guess", by your definition of the word, including your ill-founded guesses about what nationalities I could have ("If you are French, you are not American" you said... blissfully ignorant of dual nationalities).

And you know I nailed you. That's why you're so pissed off that you won't let it go.

If you want, I can do it again. That's easy. Just try and say something else that you think is not a "guess", and watch me tear it apart to unearth all the unfounded assumptions you make without even being aware of them...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Oh I nailed you alright when I proved that everything you say is a "guess", by your definition of the word, including your ill-founded guesses about what nationalities I could have ("If you are French, you are not American" you said... blissfully ignorant of dual nationalities).

It is your fertile imagination that causes you to suppose I am ignorant of dual nationalities. What makes you think that is so difficult to understand.

And I defy you to link to a quote where I said "If you are French, you are not American." (Don't even try, Olivier...because once again this is purely something you made up.)

Right along I mentioned that there was more to the Frenchman than you were letting on...and apparently I am correct. If you are an American or Canadian who has citizenship there...fine. I have accepted that you are a Frenchman...but I have indicated that there is more to the story.

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And you know I nailed you.

You couldn't nail me with a pneumatic nail gun, Olivier. You just insist on claiming victory. Fine...if it makes you happy to indulge in fantasy, go for it.

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That's why you're so pissed off that you won't let it go.

Me pissed off? Not moi. I am happy as a lark...and enjoying all the nonsense coming from you. The true story of your nationality is still a mystery...and there almost certainly is more to the story.

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If you want, I can do it again. That's easy. Just try and say something else that you think is not a "guess", and watch me tear it apart to unearth all the unfounded assumptions you make without even being aware of them...

Olivier, I have been at this much longer than you can imagine...and you are not even coming close to landing a blow...let alone getting a "victory."

On many, many occasions through my years in Abuzz and here...I have noted that for the sake of discussion, I am willing to accept "knowing" in the way one would use it when saying something like, "I know my name is Frank" or "I know I am typing at my computer keyboard" or "I know Paris is the capital of France."

I understand...and have acknowledged that all of what we call "knowledge" has a history that develops from suppositions and guesses.

You seem to think there is something great about pointing out that I make guesses.

OF COURSE I MAKE GUESSES...and have NEVER denied that I make guesses. In fact, I often mention that I make guesses.

But I call my guesses...guesses, because that is what they are.

Anyway...I've asked for two things now that you are ducking:

One...a link to where you said what you insist you actually said...and I say you did not say...

...and two...a link to where you acknowledge that you are wrong.

I suspect my dare for you to find a quote which says what you made up earlier will also be ducked.

I'm willing to wait...but I suspect it will be a very long wait.

You want to play games first.

I love ya, Buddy. I look for your post the second I come to A2K!

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Of course there is "more to the story"... You are American but there is "more to your story" than just that. At least I hope so, for your sake.

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And I defy you to link to a quote where I said "If you are French, you are not American."

Sure thing:

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IF you actually are a Frenchman living in France...then I am wrong in my supposition that you are actually an American (or Canadian) woman.
That is a qualified comment...and there is no guess involved.

http://able2know.org/topic/216546-35#post-5642684

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Of course there is "more to the story"... You are American but there is "more to your story" than just that. At least I hope so, for your sake.

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And I defy you to link to a quote where I said "If you are French, you are not American."

Sure thing:

Quote:
IF you actually are a Frenchman living in France...then I am wrong in my supposition that you are actually an American (or Canadian) woman.
That is a qualified comment...and there is no guess involved.

http://able2know.org/topic/216546-35#post-5642684

I'm sorry...are you saying that I said "IF you actually are a Frenchman living in France...then I am wrong in my supposition that you are actually an American (or Canadian) woman"...that means I am actually saying, "If you are French, you are not American?"

C'mon, Olivier...give it up.

They are not the same...and what I said does not indicate ignorance of dual citizenship. (Any more than because I used a word you used means I stole it from you, as you earlier asserted.)

You could be a Frenchman living in France...and also have dual citizenship in any country that allows for dual citizenship. At no point did I indicate ignorance of dual citizenship...or did I suggest that it was impossible for you to be a Frenchman living in France with dual citizenship. Nothing I said indicates I ruled that out.

I thought you were just an American or a Canadian...and playing at being French.

If, however, you are a Frenchman living in France...you are not an American or a Canadian...you are a Frenchman with dual citizenship. But mostly, my GUESS is, you are an American or a Canadian...with the Frenchman being a fraud...even if you possess dual citizenship.

The pretense on your part is transparent...the regular paraphrasing to alter the quotes a part of you need to think of yourself as a "winner."

In any case, as I said, you cannot find a post of mine where I said, "If you are French, you are not American"...which was a paraphrasing designed to make a point you could not make without the alterations.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Want to try those other two things. Perhaps you will come closer to the truth...although I doubt it.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

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If, however, you are a Frenchman living in France...you are not an American or a Canadian...you are a Frenchman with dual citizenship.

Hmmm.... If this was the case, I would be a Frenchman living in France AND an American or Canadian, wouldn't I?

Did I already told you you are thick?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
If, however, you are a Frenchman living in France...you are not an American or a Canadian...you are a Frenchman with dual citizenship.

Hmmm.... If this was the case, I would be a Frenchman living in France AND an American or Canadian, wouldn't I?

Or you would be a person with multiple citizenship...rather than a Frenchman or an American or a Canadian. And living in France.

It works, Olivier.

Pick as many nits as you want...it works.

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Did I already told you you are thick?

Great phrasing!

I wonder...are you actually possessed of multiple citizenships?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Your casuistry ain't working. Or according to you one could have the American nationality and still not be an American... Go figure. :-)

FYI, I have only one nationality, French.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Your casuistry ain't working.

It must be. You're still here...and that is what I want.

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Or according to you one could have the American nationality and still not be an American... Go figure. :-)

Dealing with my statements in the context of the totality of our earlier discussion...it all fits. But I understand you need to continue this...until you declare "victory."

C'mon...stop taking yourself so seriously, Olivier. Enjoy what is going on. Life is not a dress rehearsal.

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FYI, I have only one nationality, French.

Ah...interesting. So who is the better for it...America or Canada? (Just yankin' yer chain a bit! )

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

So how can someone have the American nationality and not be American, again?...

Go ahead, explain yourself. What are you afraid of? If that idea of your is logical, I am sure you'l be able to explain it plainly rather than resort to half-assed statements like "it works"...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

So how can someone have the American nationality and not be American, again?...

If you hadn't come along, Olivier...I'd have tried to invent you.

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Go ahead, explain yourself.

'splain what, Lucy?

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What are you afraid of?

Heights!

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If that idea of your is logical, I am sure you'l be able to explain it plainly rather than resort to half-assed statements like "it works"...

QUOTE what you want me to explain...and I will give it my best effort. If you cannot master the quote function...you ought really to stop posting. (Please do not do that!)

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

The question was: how can someone have the American nationality and not be American?

1 Reply

Destroy My Belief System, Please!

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