dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 12:46 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
It is a good thing to start with intuition end then end with reason.
Max, really well put, certainly fits Einstein

And myself of course

…..Not that I'm comparing me……

Quote:
And in a competitive situation (like poker) it is predictably wrong.
Again Max, I'm not so sure in this case that intuition is a downside. Instead I see the force of greed and avarice at one extreme with the relatively feebler intuition at the other

Quote:
…...as long as you don't pretend that your intuition is reasonable
Our disagreement Max doubtless largely semantic, I'd define intuition as a form of reason, however subliminal
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 12:59 pm
@dalehileman,
Quote:
Our disagreement Max doubtless largely semantic, I'd define intuition as a form of reason, however subliminal


Clearly not. Reason is, by definition, a concious act. If you can't explain and define your reasoning process, then it isn't reason.

The whole point of reason is that it is out in the open. Every step in the reasoning process can be examined and questioned. This is a powerful thing since problems in your logic can be challenged and fixed. You can't correct an intuition because you can't express or question what it is based on. An intuition just is.

There is no such thing as "sublimimal" reason.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 01:09 pm
@maxdancona,
Interesting response, Max, I'll hafta entertain for a while. Meantime here are about 100 other defs

http://onelook.com/?w=Reason&ls=a

A divergence largely semantical since after all nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jan, 2014 11:10 pm
@dalehileman,
max really has a hard-on for intutition.

I perceive it to, sometimes, be a sub-concious reading of non-verbal language, and in that context it can be quite accurate.

Of course it isn't 100% reliable because people are more than capable of fooling themselves into thinking that their gut feeling is not predicated upon the outcome they desire.

Of course reasoning isn't 100% reliable either, and for the same reason.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 07:47 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I am not sure what is confusing you, Finn. Either you don't understand my position on intuition, or you are unclear on what "hard-on" is.

Reasoning is superior to intuition. Reasoning is open and testable. Of course it isn't 100% reliable, but it is superior.

A conscious train of thought can be examined. You can tell your reasoning to other people for their reasoned feedback. They can point out problems with your reasoning.

A "sub-conscious reading" (as you describe intuition) is opaque. You can't examine your subconscious. Non-verbal language can't be questioned. Sure, intuition can be accurate, just as it can be completely bogus. But not being about to test it you kind of have to just trust.

I wouldn't want to fly on an airplane built by intuion.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 07:58 am
@maxdancona,
Einstein is an interesting example of reason and intuition.

Einstein's great successes started with a great idea. He explored a couple of very important thoughts (with relativity and the photoelectric effect) that no one else had taken. This was great creativity and can be called intuition.

But, of course, Einstein's successful work was completely well-reasoned. He worked out the math... every point. He understood experimental work and previous theories and made sure that his results matched.

And Einstein published well-reasoned papers. Every step was documented with rigorous math. Every point of his reasoning can be understood by other scientists and questioned (and it was).

Einsteins greatest failure was his inability to accept Quantum Mechanics. This, ironically, is a field of science based on his work on the Photoelectric effect.

But when other men reasoned further, Einstein balked based on his intuition. His famous line objecting to Quantum Physics was "God does not play dice with the Universe".

Of course, in this case, Einstein was wrong.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 12:03 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Thanks Finn

Quote:
Of course reasoning isn't 100% reliable either,
Yea, esp mine
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 12:08 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Reasoning is open and testable. Of course it isn't 100% reliable, but it is superior.
Yet Max without intuition we'd still be living in caves

Quote:
You can't examine your subconscious.
You can but it requires a sort of specialized knowledge not many of us possess and as you say it's hardly 100% reliable
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 05:59 pm
@LiveLoughLaugh24,
LiveLoughLaugh24 wrote:
Quote:
"Is it just me or does anyone find it extremely hard to ignore their intuition? 
Sometimes I get waves of negativity from certain people I work with and it makes it very hard to put on a real smile or have a happy giddy conversation with them."


I understand the feelings.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 07:19 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
I think intuition is a form of instinct ...there's definitively a relationship
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jan, 2014 12:35 pm
@Germlat,
Yea Germ well put, instinct as well as reason, definitely an evolutionary attribute
0 Replies
 
 

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