Did the political conversation in the UK become surreal?

Well Walter,

I think Jackie Ashley just about sums up our true condition very well. We delude oureselves in this country if we think we are (when push come to shove) anything more than a colony of our former colonies.

But we take real good care a you guys, Boss . . .

When you say so.

Thanks very much. We sure appreciate your ironic sense of humour.

Walter, that article reminded me of what is happening in this country.

Here is a quote from the article:

"That is the sadness of British politics. Like some flyblown colonial capital, we can have our little local scandals, our flutters of excitement about the governor's wife. But we cannot really engage in matters of global substance, whatever we pretend. It is an indictment of our political system. Maybe we should all move to Manchester anyway, and start again from there."

That happens in this country, maybe not in the major papers, but certainly in the local papers and on the local television news. We get very little feedback as to the mood of our townspeople on whether we should go to war. There are the same wedding announcements, police log and highschool sports and adult ed classes; fine for a local paper, but much more limited than it has to be.

Even the major papers and national television news seem sadly accepting of war as an inevitability. US News & World Report came out in support of war with Iraq in an editorial.

One reason might be the effcient methods used to subdue opposition.
I was just reading about "Free Speech Zones," a place where protesters are herded, like cattle, in order to make a safety zone for the president in a parade or caravan. The point of the article was that the posters showing positive attitudes toward GW's policy were not asked to move at all.

I can't remember where I read the article, but when I do, I will post a link.

Walter - do you not think it is a numb sense of helplessness - a part of the "cocooning" that is said to be characterizing the response of many of us to the seemingly relentless march of events.

In Australia, my country, I am aware of much debate and strong anti-war and even anti-American feelings (especially in relation to the USA taking non-UN sponsored action) - I do not think this is accurately reflected in mainstream media - though it is mentioned, and there is some debate.

However, it seems most of us who dissent feel pretty helpless, and our PM seems determined to pop in a few troops tp the general melee, despite being aware of a very divided country - and angered by the failure of an anti-terrorism bill, similar to that of the USA's, to be passed into law by Parliament.

Perhaps poor Cherie is a welcome distraction from the new world order.

It seems no mainstream political parties or national newspapers are prepared to make a stand and say unequivocally that they are against war with Iraq.

At best they say "well of course we hope it does not come to war, but..."

The fact is none of them have the balls to say NO. The time for debate is now. When the war starts its too late. Then you only have a simple choice, to support "our boys" or to support the enemy. Not difficult for most people, and too late to query how it is that "our boys and girls" are killing and getting killed.

To respond seriously, Steve, i feel a terrible sense of "disconnectedness" in this matter--no one is listening, and nothing can be done to rein-in these war mongers . . . in that respect, it's no different here than there . . .

Steve - wasn't it The Mirror in Britain which published that huge banner front page about the madman loose with WOMD - George Bush?

That sounds reasonably anti-war to me!

Setanta, that's it - disconnectedness - if thats a word - a sense of helplessness and inability to affect the course of events (my definition). Seems like we are sleep walking into war, completely powerless to change what our masters have planned for us whether American British Australian or Iraqi.

Dlowan I didn't see that particular headline. The Mirror has certainly been a dissenting voice recently. But once the fighting starts they will be as jingoistic as any other tabloid. They won't campaign to end the war. And once won (assuming we do win), they will revel in it, and forget what was said before.

The situation here in Germany is very similar - and quite different at the same moment:
media are reporting about the (coming) war from the distance.
Questions ("will the Bundeswehr look after US-American barracks" [yes], "will German soldiers stay in AWAC-planes in battle areas" [maybe] are looked at from an "interior plolitical" angle.

There is a broad, very broad consensus that we don't join the war [I believe, the only pro is coming from a handful of conservative -however, leading- politicans].
Thus, papers are reporting/commenting more or less on a "war correspondant level".

Walter

It seems that no one wants war, apart from the "world leaders" who keep pushing this agenda. No one I know sees it as a solution to current world problems ... The opposite, in fact: an escalation of the hostilities & the madness. But this widely-held view is definitely not reflected by the media here in Australia ... Just the odd letter to the editor, the odd small report of another anti-war demonstration. I wonder if the press has been TOLD that opposition is a no go area? So little attention to something so potentially destructive, with such huge ramifications!

Do you have a strong alternative press in Germany? (With any credibility?) What are they saying?

Re the Cherie hysteria in the UK .... Maybe if the media can't (or are too afraid to) criticize Blair's arrogance over Iraq & his blind support of Bush, then the next best thing is to damage him via his wife's rather silly activities? Pathetic, really ..

Re your last, msolga: I've thought about the same.

Alternative press in Germany? Yes, there's the 'taz' in Berlin and the weekly magazines - but alternative?

There are those who object on principle to war period. There are those who see war in terms of glory, adventure, and profit. Then there are those who despite moral and ethical repulsion become convinced of the necessity of a particular war, and there are those who, having seen war, know there is precious little glory, adventure, or profit to be found therein. I believe the present situation will devolve to war. I do not want this, or for that matter any other, war to happen. I went to one once, and I didn't enjoy it very much at all. I would recommend the experience to no one.

I don't see "Our Leaders" blindly, thoughtlessly carreening toward war for the sake of war. I see legitimate issues which must be resolved, and which have so far resisted all means of resolution short of war We find ourselves in the ludicrous position that the most influential individual on the planet at the moment is Sadaam Hussein. Ultimately, the Go/No Go decision is his. The Lunatic is running the Assylum. This does not engender optimism.



timber

Went to bed late after watching quite a moving programme about German prisoners of war in Lancashire, England 1945-7.

Among them Bert Trautmann who played in goal for Manchester City and who played the last 10 minutes of the cup final with a broken neck.

So I stayed awake most of the night thinking about wars that have gone and wars that are to come. But when I did eventually sleep I woke up to Cold Play, and the world doesn't seem too bad.

If you've never heard of this Brit Band, you will.

The US TOUR pre-sale started on 20.12.2002!

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When we think of the plight of the innocent Iraq citizens
the last thing we think is about SENSE OF HUMOUR