132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 02:39 am
@Setanta,
Well, I have ta thank Leadfoot for calling our attention to the Nobel prize in Chem. It turns out that, by adjusting the environment and EhPh , They could get all kinds of enzymatic results (sorta like Natural selection or lethal or "neutral" theory actually works).IMAGINE, nobody said ,ya got it right Charles.
At the same time, the Creationist literature is singing this up as sorta what Leadfoot was saying.

What Id like to see is what the ratio of lethal to beneficial traits would be disclosed by the lab work. What statistics can she come up with.Im sure its going to be somewhere in the ranges predicted by Margulis or Maturana. The labb has beecome the vast water plains of the ARchean Age where evolution was dicking around with stromatolite structure for a billion yars or so.

As far as " concluding that God did it"

Its like in the early 2000's when the team from UNC discovered "dinosaur soft tissue", which, by the woo woo science of the Creationists, "Soft tissues had to mean that the dinosaur fossil couldnt be old and therefore dinosaurs lived with humans". It must be great living in such a world where everything is simple and is "REVEALED TO US" daily.
Today, when whole mechanism of iron reactivity and adsorption /desorption mchanics the soft tissue discovery has led to an entire new playbook on the origins of life on the planet and fossilization., You dont hear much from the "Honest Creationists" any more. Theyve sorta kept going.
However, I assume that this whole event will lead to new avenues of directed evolution in the lab < and , of course, the use of that language will cause the Creationists/IDers to achieve massive orgasms.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 02:51 am
@brianjakub,
Haldanes dilemma was fixed to his satisfaction by understanding that mutations or gene fixing doesnt occur sequentially and the loci of reaction isnt jut occuring at one spot at a time. He recognized that he carried along an error in " numerical Substitution of offspring " in his cost.
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 02:54 am
@farmerman,
I wonder when J Doudna and her team will get a NOBEL in Medicine for the discovry of CRSPR-cas9 (gene editing). I hope they get it befor the technology is used in the creation of super babies in China.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 03:00 am
@hingehead,
some of these guys will deny occurences via random mutation and sellection and then will want to know how nature "learned this trick" at the same time theres an argument going on that fdeals with the hugely large number of crossings and genetic reactions going on in a species at any time .
It must be difficult keeping ones **** together if one is a good IDer.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 03:47 am
Why don't we get real here, and see that there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL for (macro) evil-lotion.

No one here has been able to give any evidence or even a clue that it is true.

So, it is crystal clear there is NO macro-evolution.

How then come, people want to continue this macro-evil-lotion stupidity?
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 04:29 am
Another thing against the evil-lotion-theory is that 'consciousness' is what creates our material universe, and not the other way around!

So there you go, evolution-theory! Making obsolete the whole damned thing
called evolution theory!
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 04:38 am
Furthermore, the whole stupid evolution-shite is build upon a flawed basis.
They have NO CLUE how live begon, but nevertheless they build a whole structure on it, and then they ask if we please forget the basics, because "we are not into that".
Just like the rest of the religion called 'science' is based on very weak basics.
Just laugh at the whole stupidity of 'science'!
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 05:25 am
@OldGrumpy,
whatever gloomy. We have a lotta fun with our fantasy. What dp you do for fun besides spanking the monkey??.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 05:39 am
You guys have no grasp of the significant point in the bio-chem Nobel award. The significance was in overcoming the barrier to getting multi-nucleotide changes, sometimes widely separated ones, to be generated and preserved. That took a hell of a lot of 'ID'.

If nature has done & can do that, why'd they give this chick a prize?
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 05:56 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
whatever gloomy. We have a lotta fun with our fantasy. What dp you do for fun besides spanking the monkey??.


You seem to have a problem with what I wrote?
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:01 am
@Leadfoot,
Heres a bit of a talk re: How France ARnold and her team managed to conduct this "artificial selection" at the enzyme level. It invoved (apparently) a lot of screening results (like nature would do in natural selection).

Quote:
Expanding Nature's Catalytic Repertoire for a Sustainable Chemical Industry
Nature, the best chemist of all time, solves the difficult problem of being alive and enduring for billions of years, under an astonishing range of conditions. Most of the marvelous chemistry that makes life possible is the work of nature's macromolecular protein catalysts, the enzymes. By using enzymes, nature can extract materials and energy from the environment and convert them into self‐replicating, self‐repairing, mobile, adaptable, and sometimes even thinking biochemical systems. These systems are good models for a sustainable chemical industry that uses renewable resources and recycles a good fraction of its products. And biology is not just a model from which to draw inspiration: living organisms or their components can be efficient production platforms. In fact, I predict that DNA‐programmable microorganisms will be producing many of our chemicals in the not‐so‐distant future.

That most chemicals are made using synthetic processes starting from petroleum‐based feedstocks reflects the remarkable creativity of synthetic chemists in developing reaction schemes and catalysts that nature never discovered. Synthetic chemistry has given us an explosion of products, which feed, clothe, house, entertain, and cure us. Synthetic chemistry, however, struggles to match the efficiency and selectivity that biology achieves with enzymes. In many cases, synthetic processes rely on precious metals, toxic reagents and solvents, and extreme conditions, and they generate substantial amounts of unwanted byproducts. DNA‐programmable chemical synthesis using enzymes promises to improve on synthetic chemistry, particularly if we are able to expand biology's catalytic repertoire to include some of the most synthetically useful reactions, under physiological conditions and with earth‐abundant resources. Such clean, green chemistry might sound like pie in the sky, but enzymes already show how a protein can orient substrates for reaction, exclude water from an active site, activate a metal or simple organic cofactor, or suppress competing reactions to draw out new and admirable synthetic capabilities. Synthetic chemists have been drawing inspiration from biology for decades, and now is the time for protein engineers to use inspiration from synthetic chemistry to generate new enzymes that will improve on and replace synthetic catalysts and reaction pathways.1

Unfortunately, our understanding of the link between sequence and function lags well behind our desire for new enzymes. Given that our ability to predict protein sequences, or even just changes to a sequence, which reliably give rise to whole new, finely tuned catalytic activities is rudimentary at best, creating new enzymes capable of improving on current synthetic processes is a pretty tall order. We also dream of going beyond known chemistry to create enzymes that catalyze reactions or make products that are simply not possible with any known method, synthetic or otherwise. Requiring that these new enzymes assemble and function in cells, where they can be made at low cost and incorporated into synthetic metabolic pathways to generate a broader array of products, represents an even greater set of engineering constraints and challenges.

Nature's enzymes are the products of evolution, not design. By using generations of mutation and selection for fitness advantages, evolution allows organisms to continuously update and optimize their enzyme repertoires. New enzymes even appear in real time in response to challenges (e.g. the need to resist antibiotics or pesticides) or opportunities (e.g. the chance to occupy a new food niche by degrading recently introduced, manmade substances). I argue that the process that gave rise to all the remarkable biological catalysts in nature should be able to produce yet more. In the laboratory. Quickly. Advances in molecular biology over the past few decades—the ability to write, cut, and paste DNA and to have that DNA read and translated into proteins in recombinant organisms—have given us the ability to breed enzymes much like we breed sheep or sake yeast. We can direct the evolution of enzymes in the laboratory by requiring them to perform in ways that may not be useful to a bacterium but are useful to us. Directed evolution achieves these desirable functional outcomes while circumventing our deep ignorance of how sequence encodes them.

Directed evolution mimics evolution by artificial selection, and is accelerated in the laboratory setting by focusing on individual genes expressed in fast‐growing microorganisms. We start with existing proteins (sourced from nature or engineered), introduce mutations, and then screen for the progeny proteins with enhanced activity (or another desirable trait). We use the improved enzymes as parents for the next round of mutation and screening, recombining beneficial mutations as needed, and continuing until we reach the target level of performance.

Engineering enzymes in the 1980s and 1990s, I learned the hard way that there was no reliable method to predict performance‐enhancing mutations. Turning instead to random mutagenesis and screening, I quickly realized that such mutations were easy to find and accumulate with the right evolutionary optimization strategy. My students and I observed that proteins, the products of evolution, are themselves readily evolvable. Properties we and others targeted in the early days of directed evolution (the mid‐1990s) included recovering activity in unusual environments (e.g. organic solvents), improving activity on non‐native substrates, enhancing thermostability, and changing enantioselectivity. We learned the then‐surprising fact that beneficial mutations could be far from an active site, and often appeared on the protein surface (which in those days was generally deemed insensitive to mutation and functionally neutral). To this day, no one can explain satisfactorily how such mutations exert their effects, much less predict them.

Apparently herwork is actually like 20+ years behind us. The connection between her and Wison's team is a working model of nw technology based on the way nature plays with molecules like DNA.
source(http://online library.com FrancesArnold)
Wait till CRSPR gets the NOBEL.
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:05 am
@OldGrumpy,
Quote:
You seem to have a problem with what I wrote?
Hell NO. I often pull it up and post some of your **** at the interdisciplinary lab .They have a "Creationist Board" that has a contest for the goofiest posts on the interweb. They award a prrize every April Fools. Hold on, e have several months to go but youre in the running.
Its your maniacal style that is garnering the votes.
nagarjuna2
 
  1  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:09 am
@chai2,
Evolution redirects into another so that
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:10 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Hell NO. I often pull it up and post some of your **** at the interdisciplinary lab .They have a "Creationist Board" that has a contest for the goofiest posts on the interweb. They award a prrize every April Fools. Hold on, e have several months to go but youre in the running.
Its your maniacal style that is garnering the votes.


You really, really, really can't read AT ALL.
Numerous times I have stated I am NOT a CREATIONIST.
Yet, because of your believe system (evil-lotion) and you very black and white thinking you can't even read what I am writing.

Consciousness is creating our material world. Not ME is saying this but some very good scientists. Not that I care, because you can find that out without science. But nevertheless some people need to be convinced by 'scientists'. So be it and it is a 'scientists' that claims that our consciousness is creating the material world. Of course it is! That is the only way!


farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:11 am
@OldGrumpy,
but you wrap yourself in Creationist arguments. "Quack Quack"
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:12 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
but you wrap yourself in Creationist arguments. "Quack Quack"


which one?
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 06:18 am
@OldGrumpy,
the fossil record is crap , for one.
SCience is full of lies for another
only Microevolution exists (after their "kind" ) arguments

I can go on and on but you aint worth any more than ridicule
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 08:35 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
From your snippet:
Directed evolution achieves these desirable functional outcomes while circumventing our deep ignorance of how sequence encodes them.

The significant thing here is 'our deep ignorance' about the encoding scheme. We could just as well interpret this 'directed evolution' as enabling functions that were previously inhibited (for reasons we don't know), not a truly new function. This was the case in one of the very few successful evolution experiments on bacteria of that era.

Maybe all evolution is directed.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 09:14 am
@Leadfoot,
Now that is a reasonable conclusion that should be looked into buy academics in a variety of fields in our universities. And then the various proposals to explain this apparent development of complexity should be presented in educational system at all levels without biases.
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 15 Nov, 2018 09:21 am
@Leadfoot,
so thats your argument for ID??
I think the understanding was clear about how they used nat selection nd chose those outcomes that prospered . Its adaptation, not planning, (or am I missing something?)
 

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