132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:17 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
“Creating completely new designs from scratch is what I would expect a random evolutionary process would do.”

Olivier replied:
That's absurd. It's the opposite: ID should lead to a whole lot of new designs.

No, my statement is perfectly logical if evolution was able to do what is claimed. In fact, if evolution cannot do this absurd thing (as you correctly call it) the whole theory falls apart. Where are new species and whole new body plans going to come from in evolutionary theory? There appears to be no coherent answer to that question.

But yes my man! We absolutely would expect these things from an intelligent designer. That’s what I’ve been trying to say here for quite a while.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:19 am
@Leadfoot,
So... you don't expect new designs from an intelligent designer?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:21 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
All religions are internally inconsistant, without exception.

(Assuming you are referring to recognizable organized religions) -
That’s because they all contain some level of dogma.

That’s also why I have no religion.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:25 am
@Leadfoot,
And yet, you expect your "intellugent designer" to NOT design new stuff... See the internal contradiction here?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:30 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
So... you don't expect new designs from an intelligent designer?

You don’t actually parse my posts for meaning, do you.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:43 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:

And yet, you expect your "intellugent designer" to NOT design new stuff... See the internal contradiction here?
.
You didn’t follow. I was speaking from the evolutionist POV when I said new designs are what I would expect from random evolution. I said that in order to expose the inconsistency in that POV.

If by now you don’t get that I expect new design from an intelligent designer you definitely are not paying attention. But the attempted gotcha is noted.

Btw, a new design can use an earlier designed part. You do see that, right? That is no proof or disproof of either theory.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 09:46 am
What you also hear a lot is that evolution is 'proved' by this or by that.

And in the meantime they don't understand that 'science' can't prove a damned thing.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:33 pm
@OldGrumpy,
Quote:
What you also hear a lot is that evolution is 'proved' by this or by that.

And just as airily the Neo evolutionists say that irreducible complexity has been thouroughly disproved.
But when you ask for an example of such 'natural' complexity arising outside of life, they got nothing.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 01:01 pm
@Leadfoot,
Yup, we're all looking for the solid evidence, not any maybe evidence, let alone no evidence
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 02:53 pm
The only evidence the god squad is interested in is that which will stroke their confirmation bias. All I ever see from the religious types is carping about science not having all the answers, which is invariably followed by the allegation that Jeebus and his crew do have all the answers. It's the worst case of attempting to cram "evidence" into initial premises that one can find today.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 03:38 pm
@OldGrumpy,
Quote:
,,, 'science' can't prove a damned thing.
. Except for the fact that 1+1=2. Humans have created language and mathematics. Everybody uses language to communicate. If you go to a store to buy something, and the item you wish to buy costs $1.00, and you give the cashier $5.00, you will get $4.00 in change. If you can provide evidence that is not proof, please provide evidence to the contrary.
Quote:
sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. All encompassed in human behavior.
We know that humans calculate the day as 24 hours. Scientifically speaking, time actually differs over a long period of time so that a year isn't really exactly 365 days. Humans have been able to calculate that minor change.

https://medium.com/the-philipendium/a-day-is-not-24-hours-c36ee96078c6

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/aboututc.html
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 04:55 pm
@OldGrumpy,
WEll. yes,it can.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 10:12 pm
@Leadfoot,
That is truly hilarious.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 10:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
. Except for the fact that 1+1=2. Humans have created language and mathematics. Everybody uses language to communicate. If you go to a store to buy something, and the item you wish to buy costs $1.00, and you give the cashier $5.00, you will get $4.00 in change. If you can provide evidence that is not proof, please provide evidence to the contrary.


That is hardly 'science'! is it?! And 1+1 isn't always 2, because in 'nature' nothing is the same! So, one leaf and another leaf are NOT two identical leaves. It's rubbish.

Quote:
The invention of the laws of numbers was made on the basis of error,

dominant even for earliest times, that there are identical things (but in fact

nothing is identical with anything else)


Nietzsche




Start reading:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZTJ63%2Bw9L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Furthermore:

Quote:
In one of my science textbooks, I make the statement that science cannot prove anything.1 I am always surprised at how controversial such a matter-of-fact statement is to some people. Almost every year, at least one student or parent will contact me simply aghast that I would write something like that in a science textbook. After all, science has proven all sorts of things, hasn’t it?
Of course it hasn’t. In fact, it is impossible for science to prove anything, because science is based on experiments and observations, both of which can be flawed. Often, those flaws don’t become apparent to the scientific community for quite some time. Flawed experiments and observations, of course, lead to flawed conclusions, so even the most secure scientific statements have never been proven. There might be gobs and gobs of evidence for them, but they have not been proven.

Karl Popper probably wrote the most important book related to this concept, which was titled The Logic of Scientific Discovery. Interestingly enough, he originally wrote it in German and then rewrote it in English. As a result, it is one of the few books that is published in two different languages but was never translated. The author wrote both versions. In this book, he argues that science should follow a methodology based on falsification. He shows quite clearly that while science cannot prove anything, it can falsify ideas that are currently thought to be true. He therefore argues that the test of any real scientific theory is whether or not it can be falsified. If not, then it is not truly a scientific theory.

There are a lot of scientists who disagree with Popper that falsification is the key to whether or not a theory is scientific. However, few would argue with his point that science cannot prove anything. Indeed, the journal Science seemed to forget this fact for a moment, but an astute reader chastised the editor, who admitted he was wrong.


The reader’s name is Charles L. Bennett, and he wrote a letter to the editor saying:2

The title of the 6 May News of the Week story “At long last, Gravity Probe B satellite proves Einstein right” (p. 649) made me cringe. I find myself frequently repeating to students and the public that science doesn’t “prove” theories. Scientific measurements can only disprove theories or be consistent with them. Any theory that is consistent with measurements could be disproved by a future measurement. I wouldn’t have expected Science magazine, of all places, to say a theory was “proved.”

Dr. Bennett is correct, of course. The editor, Colin Norman, admitted that in his response, which appeared right under the letter:

Bennett is completely correct. It’s an important conceptual point, and we blew it.

Unfortunately, as long as science magazines and teachers are sloppy enough to keep using phrases like, “science has proven,” it will be hard to teach children the truth.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:03 pm
@OldGrumpy,
No one ever said they had to be identical except you, and whoever made that stupid unsourced
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:03 pm
@OldGrumpy,
No one ever said they had to be identical except you, and whoever made that stupid unsourced quote. One oak leaf and one maple leaf are most certainly two leaves.
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:15 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
One oak leaf and one maple leaf are most certainly two leaves.


Well '2' let's out a whole bunch of information. You see that?
One oak leave and one maple leaf has MUCH more good information.
It's okay for practical purposes allright. But not for 'science'

Really the whole basic of 'science' is indeed very very very shaky, hence all it's theories are very very shaky, and because that is this thread is about, evil-lotion is very very very shaky, to say the least.
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:33 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
and whoever made that stupid unsourced quote


Well, ask yourself only this: is it true or is it not true?
where in nature do you find identical 'things'? Right!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 03:28 am
@Leadfoot,
You keep contradicting yourself, so your posts have no clear meaning. That's your fault, not mine. If you want to understand stuff, and get understood, using a bit of logic and conceptual clarity ain't such a bad idea...

Either you speak of an intelligent designer -- and then one would expect to see some fair amount of brand new design for it -- or you're talking of lazy, not-so-smart recycler, and then one would expect a lot of recycling...

Just stating the glaringly obvious here. Now cry me a river on my listening skills.
OldGrumpy
 
  1  
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 05:06 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Either you speak of an intelligent designer -- and then one would expect to see some fair amount of brand new design for it [/i] -


Why? maybe the 'designer' made everything perfect from scratch?
Then no need for a brand new design, eh?!
Ever seen a certainn fish changed into another sort of fish? Just saying, just saying.

 

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