132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:32 am
@Leadfoot,
"
Quote:
cripes a'mighty if it just doesn't scream 'Design'.
.

abiogenesis is perhaps sorta like the Big Bang. Maybe the "nothing" from which arose everything was merely made of protons and other component light nuclei . Very Shortly after the formations of galaxies begat heavier elements, attempts at simple life appear to occur from the fossil records in Greenland and Australia. Ive made no attempt to justify or (not justify) "design", I just dont see a prepondernce of any evidence that doesnt require some kind of heavy duty belief system in a designer.

To me, the occurences of life are so slap dash, opportunistic, and RESPONSIVE TO CHANGING CHEMICAL environments that, had oxygen not occured as a waste product of a modified Archean life form, when would more advanced life forms actually occur?

Being overwhelmed by the amounts of data th are out there is not a reason to default to the unexplainable. Otherwise, why study science at all??

farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:35 am
@gungasnake,
MODERN MAN
THOUGH WELL BEHAVED
IS NOTHING BUT
A MONKEY SHAVED


Burma Shave
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Tue 2 May, 2017 05:33 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Being overwhelmed by the amounts of data th are out there is not a reason to default to the unexplainable.

Degrasse Tyson on the god of the gaps
hingehead
 
  2  
Tue 2 May, 2017 05:36 am
@hingehead,
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/21/f9/0021f967b62760b46cd635ce02e877cd.jpg
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Tue 2 May, 2017 06:06 am
@hingehead,
Tyson's arrogance causes him to be blind at times.

A theist who wants to know how God did it can be most useful in the lab.

farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 2 May, 2017 08:31 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
A theist who wants to know how God did it can be most useful in the lab.
'

Ridiculous, Where do you begin ?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 09:23 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
A theist who wants to know how God did it can be most useful in the lab.




Making assumptions before you start means you've got one hand tied behind your back. Scientists didn't set out to disprove Bible stories, it just worked out that way.

You're not talking about science but pseudo science like the Nazis trying to twist archaeology to fit the myth of the Aryan people.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Tue 2 May, 2017 09:33 am
Quote:
Why do people deny evolution?


Mainly because it's a bunch of bullshit.

For any newcomers who may have missed this previously:

A proof or disproof is a kind of a transaction. There is no such thing as absolutely proving or disproving something; there is only such a thing as proving or disproving something to SOMEBODY'S satisfaction. If the party of the second part is too thick or too ideologically committed to some other way of viewing reality, then the best proof in the world will fall flat and fail.

In the case of evolution, what you have is a theory which has been repeatedly and overwhelmingly disproved over a period of many decades now via a number of independent lines reasoning and yet the adherents go on with it as if nothing had happened and, in fact, demand that the doctrine be taught in public schools at public expense and that no other theory of origins even ever be mentioned in public schools, and attempt to enforce all of that via political power plays and lawsuits.

At that point, it is clear enough that no disproof or combination of disproofs would ever suffice, that the doctrine is in fact unfalsifiable and that Carl popper's criteria for a pseudoscience is in fact met.

The educated lay person is not aware of how overwhelmingly evolution has been debunked over the last century.

The following is a minimal list of entire categories of evidence disproving evolution:

The decades-long experiments with fruit flies beginning in the early 1900s. Those tests were intended to demonstrate macroevolution; the failure of those tests was so unambiguous that a number of prominent scientists disavowed evolution at the time.

The discovery of the DNA/RNA info codes (information codes do not just sort of happen...)

The fact that the info code explained the failure of the fruit-fly experiments (the whole thing is driven by information and the only info there ever was in that picture was the info for a fruit fly...)

The discovery of bio-electrical machinery within 1-celled animals.

The question of irreducible complexity.

The Haldane Dilemma. That is, the gigantic spaces of time it would take to spread any genetic change through an entire herd of animals.

The increasingly massive evidence of a recent age for dinosaurs. This includes soft tissue being found in dinosaur remains, good radiocarbon dates for dinosaur remains (blind tests at the University of Georgia's dating lab), and native American petroglyphs clearly showing known dinosaur types.

The fact that the Haldane dilemma and the recent findings related to dinosaurs amount to a sort of a time sandwich (evolutionites need quadrillions of years and only have a few tens of thousands).

The dna analysis eliminating neanderthals and thus all other hominids as plausible human ancestors.

The total lack of intermediate fossils where the theory demands that the bulk of all fossils be clear intermediate types. "Punctuated Equilibria" in fact amounts to an attempt to get around both the Haldane dilemma and the lack of intermediate fossils, but has an entirely new set of overwhelming problems of its own...

The question of genetic entropy.

The obvious evidence of design in nature.

The arguments arising from pure probability and combinatoric considerations.


Here's what I mean when I use the term "combinatoric considerations"...

The best illustration of how stupid evolutionism really is involves trying to become some totally new animal with new organs, a new basic plan for existence, and new requirements for integration between both old and new organs.

Take flying birds for example; suppose you aren't one, and you want to become one. You'll need a baker's dozen highly specialized systems, including wings, flight feathers, the specialized system which allows flight feathers to pivot so as to open on upstrokes and close to trap air on downstrokes (like a venetian blind), a specialized light bone structure, specialized flow-through design heart and lungs, specialized tail, specialized general balance parameters etc.

For starters, every one of these things would be antifunctional until the day on which the whole thing came together, so that the chances of evolving any of these things by any process resembling evolution (mutations plus selection) would amount to an infinitessimal, i.e. one divided by some gigantic number.

In probability theory, to compute the probability of two things happening at once, you multiply the probabilities together. That says that the likelihood of all these things ever happening, best case, is ten or twelve such infinitessimals multiplied together, i.e. a tenth or twelth-order infinitessimal. The whole history of the universe isn't long enough for that to happen once.

All of that was the best case. In real life, it's even worse than that. In real life, natural selection could not plausibly select for hoped-for functionality, which is what would be required in order to evolve flight feathers on something which could not fly apriori. In real life, all you'd ever get would some sort of a random walk around some starting point, rather than the unidircetional march towards a future requirement which evolution requires.

And the real killer, i.e. the thing which simply kills evolutionism dead, is the following consideration: In real life, assuming you were to somehow miraculously evolve the first feature you'd need to become a flying bird, then by the time another 10,000 generations rolled around and you evolved the second such reature, the first, having been disfunctional/antifunctional all the while, would have DE-EVOLVED and either disappeared altogether or become vestigial.

Now, it would be miraculous if, given all the above, some new kind of complex creature with new organs and a new basic plan for life had ever evolved ONCE.

Evolutionism, however (the Theory of Evolution) requires that this has happened countless billions of times, i.e. an essentially infinite number of absolutely zero probability events.

I ask you: What could be stupider than that?


Fruit flies breed new generations every few days. Running a continuous decades-long experiment on fruit flies will involve more generations of fruit flies than there have ever been of anything resembling humans on Earth. Evolution is supposed to be driven by random mutation and natural selection; they subjected those flies to everything in the world known to cause mutations and recombined the mutants every possible way, and all they ever got was fruit flies.

Richard Goldschmidt wrote the results of all of that up in 1940, noting that it was then obvious enough that no combination of mutation and selection could ever produce a new kind of animal.

There is no excuse for evolution to ever have been taught in schools after 1940.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 12:27 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
In the case of evolution, what you have is a theory which has been repeatedly and overwhelmingly disproved
by who? you?

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Tue 2 May, 2017 12:40 pm
@farmerman,
Lots of imagination.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 12:42 pm
@farmerman,
.gunga, Please show us examples of how evolution has been disproved.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 02:54 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Quote:
A theist who wants to know how God did it can be most useful in the lab.

Ridiculous, Where do you begin ?

Einstein was ambiguous about his theism, but in effect, that was his motivation. It works for others too.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 02:57 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Making assumptions before you start means you've got one hand tied behind your back.

You are assuming theism ties one hand behind the back. I could argue that the phrase applies more to methodological naturalism.

Theism is open to more possibilities than your definition of science.
And yes, I know that would apply to astrologers too. Theism does not mean you abandon logic and reason however.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://newgeology.us/presentation48.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvWdWbLcJvQ

gungasnake
 
  0  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/10mut10.htm
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:29 pm
@gungasnake,
actually U/Th?H4 disequilibrium techniques are used for dinosaur bones , the ssurrounding sedimentary (ash layers) deposits can be K (40)/Ar/ Ar,K/Ca and Ar/Ar dated. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE ANY REAL C14 dates EVER been provided by real scientists. Its only the "work product" of these clowns whove mislabeled, contaminated samples, faked locales, and lied to the labs.
If you believe that **** you post gunga, you are dumber than you try to make believe.
For a few hundred bucks you can take a course in radioisotope chemistry and dating, (providing you have partial diff equations )

Funny, theres never a peer reviewed article about C14 in dinosaurs (except one year when some wag put in an article for the April 1 edition of Nature.(IT WAS A JOKE)

To gunga, ALLEY OOP is science.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:32 pm
@Leadfoot,
Einstein used his sense of humor to generate disquiet
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:43 pm
Nothing any older than around 60K years would ever radiocarbon date at all. The fact that these remains DO RC date says that the standard theory is FUBAR.

ALL isotope based dating schemes are based on assumptions. RC dating is the only such scheme in which those assumptions don't totally go out the window the first time you ever allow for any sort of cosmic disasters in past ages.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:45 pm
likewise the mere fact of soft tissue now being found in dinosaur remains wrecks standard notions. There is no rational way to believe that any kind of soft tissue would ever last anywhere near even one million years, much less 65 million.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 2 May, 2017 03:53 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
You are assuming theism ties one hand behind the back


actually it puts duck tape over ones eyes.
 

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