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Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:50 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
We would probably need to go back to the Precambrian for that. We could start by asking how Pikaia reproduced.
Quote:
Possible ancestor[edit]
Much debate on whether Pikaia is a vertebrate ancestor, its worm-like appearance notwithstanding, exists in scientific circles. It looks like a worm that has been flattened sideways. The fossils compressed within the Burgess Shale show chordate features such as traces of an elongate notochord, dorsal nerve cord, and blocks of muscles (myotomes) down either side of the body – all critical features for the evolution of the vertebrates.


I can't find any information on how they reproduced so I assume it is asexually. So, are we assuming that this animal evolved into opposite sex versions as we move up the evolutionary ladder to complex heterosexual vertebrates?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:07 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Bear in mind that the nature of sexual reproduction really has everything to do with the exchange of genetic information and not with the development of organs for assisting the process.
I guess I am interested in learning how evolution altered the genetic information through natural selection of random mutations, so that an asexual animal could evolve into a heterosexual animal over several generations. I would especially like to know how the male version evolved alongside the female. Does that mean we shouldn't be looking at the nature of sexual reproduction, but rather evidence on the mechanisms available to evoltuion that result in an asexual animal evolving to a male and female animal.
Quote:
And as Parados has pointed out, all of the important drivers behind sexual evolution happened at cellular levels long before mammals arose.
Are the drivers the changes in the environment causing natural selection to choose one mutation over another? Can understanding the drivers
parados
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:16 am
@brianjakub,
Until you can say specifically that you understand that single cell organisms act through meiosis you will never get beyond your current ignorance.

Quote:
Meiosis Listeni/maɪˈoʊsᵻs/ is a specialized type of cell division that reduces the chromosome number by half. This process occurs in all sexually reproducing single-celled and multicellular eukaryotes,
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:25 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:
And as Parados has pointed out, all of the important drivers behind sexual evolution happened at cellular levels long before mammals arose.
Can understanding the drivers help us reconstruct the physical changes in the male and female versions through evolution?
parados
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:58 pm
@brianjakub,
Sure.

When you have been giving the drivers you simply discount them because you insist that unless we knowing everything we know nothing.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 01:40 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I can't find any information on how they reproduced so I assume it is asexually. So, are we assuming that this animal evolved into opposite sex versions as we move up the evolutionary ladder to complex heterosexual vertebrates?

We're not assuming anything. I was just pointing out that we're going to have to go back very far to start to see where sexual differentiation became obvious in vertebrates. After all, fish are sexually dimorphic and they're pretty old already, so the first signs are going to have to be substantially farther back that that.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 01:55 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I guess I am interested in learning how evolution altered the genetic information through natural selection of random mutations, so that an asexual animal could evolve into a heterosexual animal over several generations.

Natural Selection. The organisms which were more successful at reproducing eventually dominated the population. Apparently sexual reproduction was more viable in some cases than asexual reproduction and those were the predominant result.
brianjakub wrote:
I would especially like to know how the male version evolved alongside the female.

Males and Females are not separate species evolving along side each other. They are the same species with differing expressions of a genetic characteristic (in our case it's a single chromosome).
parados
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 03:44 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Males and Females are not separate species evolving along side each other. They are the same species with differing expressions of a genetic characteristic (in our case it's a single chromosome).

Or in some cases the exact same genetic characteristics modified by some outside force to form male/female.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature-dependent_sex_determination
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:49 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Males and Females are not separate species evolving along side each other. They are the same species with differing expressions of a genetic characteristic (in our case it's a single chromosome).
I understand they are the same species. I am assuming that asexual reproducing animals can not reproduce heterosexually until they develop opposite sex organs through evolution. Is that a wrong assumption? Or as simple heterosexual animals like worms evolve into complex heterosexual vertebrates, the opposite sexes must have synchronized evolution of their "opposite sex" sexual organs. Is this also a wrong assumption?

The evolution from asexual to heterosexual reproduction in males is what really interests me, when only females can reproduce asexually.
Quote:
Examples in animals[edit]
There are examples of parthenogenesis in the hammerhead shark[21] and the blacktip shark.[22] In both cases, the sharks had reached sexual maturity in captivity in the absence of males, and in both cases the offspring were shown to be genetically identical to the mothers.
Reptiles use the ZW sex-determination system, which produces either males (with ZZ sex chromosomes) or females (with ZW or WW sex chromosomes). Until 2010, it was thought that the ZW chromosome system used by reptiles was incapable of producing viable WW offspring, but a (ZW) female boa constrictor was discovered to have produced viable female offspring with WW chromosomes.[23] The female boa could have chosen any number of male partners (and had successfully in the past) but on these occasions she reproduced asexually, creating 22 female babies with WW sex-chromosomes.
Polyembryony is a widespread form of asexual reproduction in animals, whereby the fertilized egg or a later stage of embryonic development splits to form genetically identical clones. Within animals, this phenomenon has been best studied in the parasitic Hymenoptera. In the 9-banded armadillos, this process is obligatory and usually gives rise to genetically identical quadruplets. In other mammals, monozygotic twinning has no apparent genetic basis, though its occurrence is common. There are at least 10 million identical human twins and triplets in the world today.
Bdelloid rotifers reproduce exclusively asexually, and all individuals in the class Bdelloidea are females. Asexuality evolved in these animals millions of years ago and has persisted since. There is evidence to suggest that asexual reproduction has allowed the animals to evolve new proteins through the Meselson effect that have allowed them to survive better in periods of dehydration.[24]
Molecular evidence strongly suggest that several species of the stick insect genus Timema have used only asexual (parthenogenetic) reproduction for millions of years, the longest period known for any insect.[25]
In the grass thrips genus Aptinothrips there have been several transitions to asexuality, likely due to different causes
How did the male version evolve from asexual reproduction to heterosexual?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:29 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I am assuming that asexual reproducing animals can not reproduce heterosexually until they develop opposite sex organs through evolution. Is that a wrong assumption?

I think it's in accurate. I believe there are several examples of simple life forms which have a very inefficient mating behavior which essentially entails mashing themselves together and exchanging genetic material. I can't remember an example off-hand but I'm sure if you google it you will find a few.
parados
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:41 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
I am assuming that asexual reproducing animals can not reproduce heterosexually until they develop opposite sex organs through evolution. Is that a wrong assumption?

Completely wrong.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:44 pm
Some plants and animals reproduce bot sexually and asexually. There ought to be some clues in that, somewhere.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:54 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I am assuming


always a problem when a discussion involves science
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:55 pm
@brianjakub,
Can I ask what grade you're in? you're asking questions that I learned the answers to in science and biology and history classes in the 1970's.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 08:07 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Some plants and animals reproduce bot sexually and asexually. There ought to be some clues in that, somewhere.

Asexual multiplication is cheaper and faster but it only produces clones. It does not recombinate genes to create new individuals, which what sexual reproduction does. Often in such species asexual multiplication is used in good times, when the environment is ok, and sexual reproduction would be used in times of stress, to try and arrive at new genomes able to deal with the stress.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 08:38 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
I believe there are several examples of simple life forms
Those simple life forms are basically the same sex with the same sexual organs. How did they evolve the complex opposite sex organs, and the complex behaviors to get from simple to complex heterosexual reproduction? Did a worm or some other simple animal evolve to an animal with partially developed opposite sex organs that after generations evolved to complete opposite sex organs? Did they rub against each other exchanging genetic material until they developed complex opposite sex organs and behaviors?
brianjakub
 
  0  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 09:28 am
@ehBeth,
If the answers to how evolution transitioned from simple as sexual reproduction to complex heterosexual reproduction, please tell me. Especially how the male reproduced while it was evolving to complexity to reproduce heterosexually. Was it rubbing against the partially evolved female, or was it reproducing asexually or something else?
parados
 
  2  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 09:59 am
@brianjakub,
Do you know what meioses is?

Please tell us what you think it is so we can confirm you understand it. Until you know what that is, your questions are based on ignorance of basic facts.

Your questions continue to ignore the fact that meiosis occurs in single cell organisms. It doesn't require rubbing up against anything. There are many examples of vertebrates not "rubbing against eachother" to reproduce sexually. Look up fish. Your ignorance is something you seem to be determined to not get rid of at this point.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 10:30 am
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
Those simple life forms are basically the same sex with the same sexual organs.

Yes.
brianjakub wrote:
How did they evolve the complex opposite sex organs, and the complex behaviors to get from simple to complex heterosexual reproduction?

Natural Selection.

I don't understand why you keep asking this. It's like asking me why a rock rolled down a hill, and whey I say "Gravity" you ask which "way" did it roll down the hill and did it bounce off any other rocks on the way down. What does it matter, it rolled down the hill due to gravity, and sexual dimorphism evolved through Natural Selection. What bit of detail are you actually looking for here, or what are you implying?

brianjakub wrote:
Did a worm or some other simple animal evolve to an animal with partially developed opposite sex organs that after generations evolved to complete opposite sex organs?

It's not accurate to think of morphological changes as being "partially" developed because there is no targeted goal. Each stage is completely developed and fully functional even though it may not be as efficient as later changes may be.

Otherwise we might say that mammal reproductive organs are "partially" developed because they can't yet reproduce from a hundred yards away. Maybe some day penises will be ridiculously long and work from across the room. Would you look back from that day and say that we were only "partially" developed before that?


ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 8 Apr, 2016 10:58 am
@brianjakub,
Meiosis

http://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-meiosis

this is really basic stuff

gr 6 - 12 curriculum

https://www.enasco.com/product/SB46900M/

https://www.sascurriculumpathways.com/portal/#/info/817

https://www.cteonline.org/curriculum/lessonplan/cell-division-meiosis/Gi4jCx



it has been explained to you several times here

you're either deliberately pretending you don't understand and/or something else is going on
0 Replies
 
 

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