Why do people deny evolution?

@FBM,

Why don't you read the articles I cited first, especially the PBS one? Then see if you still have questions. Many physicists do in fact believe it is utter bullshit, akin to magic, even if they don't use that precise word. They regard it as being what a dictionary would define magic to be.

Others disagree and think the many worlds theory is "true." Obviously, THOSE physicist do NOT call it magic. But magic is not what they say it is. It's not what you say it is. It's not what I say it is. As a matter of common convention, it is what the dictionary says it is. If the mechanics and conclusions of the theory are "magic" by dictionary definitions, then that, not the physicists who adhere to these occult-like claims, would be the deciding factor in determining whether they "believe in magic."

BTW, the very first article I gave you provides a list of prominent physicists who oppose, and who advocate, the many worlds theory. Again, this information was provided a long while back.

1 Reply

@layman,

Again, I'm not interested in arguing whether it's "tantamount to" magic or "akin to" magic. I'm asking for a list of scientists who straight-up come out and say that they believe in magic. That's all I asked for, and that's what you and Ionus claimed to be able to provide. A list of names of physicists who openly state that they believe in magic.

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@FBM,

Quote:

Again, I'm not interested in arguing whether it's "tantamount to" magic or "akin to" magic

Hmmm, well that's quite strange. And here I thought you were interested in CONCEPTS, not subjective word choices.

If I say, "I am a practitioner of voodoo and I believe I can cause you harm by sticking pins in a doll," would you say I believe in magic even if I didn't say I did?

Let's go the next step. Instead of just not using the word "magic" as such, at all, I DO use it.

I say, "I do NOT believe in magic." Would that mean voodoo beliefs were not beliefs in magic?

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@FBM,

My evidence for my claim is based on the facts/theories of modern physicists that you are either unaware of or choose to ignore . I am sure someone like you is capable of naming physicists who 'believe' in Quantum Foam, Multiple Universes, the Big Bang, and other pieces of magic . That you pretend not to be able, I think is designed to drag out the argument in the hope I will give in to time . Magic is where an illusion is created . Can you show me an atom ? I asked that before . Smashing sub-atomic particles together is an illusion, a magic trick...where is the reality behind it ?

We may have reached the limit of your ability to understand . Have you done much science or philosophy ?

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I asked for a list of names of physicists who claim that they believe in magic. Both of you said that you could provide such a list. Neither of you have.

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@FBM,

Quote:

I asked for a list of names of physicists who claim that they believe in magic. Both of you said that you could provide such a list. Neither of you have

Hahahahaha...
Hahahaha...
haha...
ha...
OK.

Ya know, if I was a DA in a district where 100 murders a day were committed, I would NOT be the least bit interested in knowing, or investigating, who commited those murders. I would only want to know one thing:

Who has confessed to any murder.

Man, I would then prosecute them with a severe vengeance and, guess what!? I would have a guaranteed 100% success rate, that's what!

1 Reply

@FBM,

Edward Witten, Max Tegmark and Brian Greene believe in magic .

Arkani-Hamed said “The universe is inevitable,” he declared. “The universe is impossible.” The answer : magic .

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking et al, were wrong . They had us believing in magic .

Show me an atom .

1 Reply

@layman,

I respectfully recommend that if you can't provide something, don't claim that you can. This sort of wasted exchange is easily avoided.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Edward Witten, Max Tegmark and Brian Greene believe in magic .

A quick googling didn't turn up overt professions of belief in magic. Would you mind providing a link to their statements regarding the matter?

Quote:

Arkani-Hamed said “The universe is inevitable,” he declared. “The universe is impossible.” The answer : magic .

Did he say it was magic, or did you?

Quote:

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking et al, were wrong . They had us believing in magic .

That's your claim, but I'm not interested in that. I'm asking for a list of names of physicists who say they believe in magic. The list you claimed to be able to provide.

Quote:

Show me an atom .

Not interested in red herring either. Sorry.

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@FBM,

Quote:

I respectfully recommend that if you can't provide something, don't claim that you can. This sort of wasted exchange is easily avoided.

I respectfully apologize for ever even beginning to think that you were attempting to pose some sort of MEANINGFUL question. One that somebody might think was actually worth responding to and discussing. One that contained some issues of substance, not form, for discussion.

My Bad. BAD, BAD, BAD. I will try to NEVER make that mistake again, OK?

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@layman,

Thank you. If I may be so bold, why do you get so angry and cop such an attitude so easily? As for me, if someone disagrees with me about a harmless point or issue, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and moving on. I don't feel like I have to belittle or attack them for not seeing the world through my eyes, with my brain. Why the attitude? I'm genuinely puzzled.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Why, FBM? Because I do not in any way approve of, and in fact resent, your attempts to move the goal posts so that you can "score."

This is definitely NOT what you said when you brought up the topic for discussion.

Quote:

Again, I'm not interested in arguing whether it's "tantamount to" magic or "akin to" magic. I'm asking for a list of scientists who straight-up come out and say that they believe in magic.

You said NOTHING about ONLY wanting to know names of scientist who used 4, and only 4 specifics words (i.e,. "I believe in magic').

On the contrary you said things like these:

Quote:

Are the physicists pointing to a supernatural source? Careful of the g0d-of-the-gaps and argumentum ad ignorantiam thingies. There will be perforce unexplained phenomena for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't lend even the least support to a supernatural explanation. The supernatural claim has no genuine (non-fallacious) supportive evidence that I'm aware of. None has been presented in this thread or this forum that I'm aware of. Or anywhere else, as far as I know.

Quote:

Seems that now we're getting into a problem of semantics. The term "supernatural" implies magic that in principle can never be explained by mundane sciences. A violation of all current and potential physical laws, rather than an as-yet-undiscovered physical law. I don't know of any physicist who takes that option seriously. Do you?

Here you talk about what options physicists "take seriously" in the way of providing "supernatural explanations." You induced everyone to respond to the very issues you brought up. Then you deny that those were ever your concerns. You have described and defined magic as something that can't be explained without reference to supernatural features. Now you deny that was the topic or the issue. Go figure.

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@FBM,

Thereafter your specific question was this:

Quote:

If you accept the connotation of 'magical' in the word 'supernatural,' then please give an example of a physicist who accepts the connoted magic aspect as an explanation for observed phenomena.

You equate the term "magic" with supernatural, and then want an example of "a physicist" who uses a supernatural "explanation for observed phenomena."

You ask for a response to that question. When people go out of their way to provide it to you, you claim that was never your question. And then you want to talk about OTHERS being "disingenuous." Again, go figure, eh?

1 Reply

@layman,

Do you have a list of physicists who claim that observed phenomena are the result of supernatural and/or magical causes? I put the goal post there and have not shifted it. You seem to be trying to, as well as building a strawman. A list of physicists who say that magic and/or the supernatural explains observed phenomena. A simple and singular request.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Which is it?

You want a quotation from a scientist who explicitly says "I believe in magic," and nothing more, nothing less.

So you said, after extensive responses to your real (original) question. Are changing that now?

1 Reply

@layman,

That's all I asked for. Someone who openly points to, in their own words, a supernatural - a part of which is magic - cause for observed phenomena. You and Ionus claimed that you could provide one. I'm rejecting red herrings and keeping the goal posts in their original position.

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@FBM,

The question was, which is it?

Be specific. Everett used "his own words" when announcing his many worlds theory. Is that what you want?

Or do you only claim to want this, and nothing more, nothing less: A "list of physicists" who say 4 specific words, to wit:

"I believe in magic!!!!!!"

1 Reply

@layman,

So I'm guessing from your red herrings and strawment that you can't actually provide a list of scientists who point to a supernatural/magical cause for observed phenomena.

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@FBM,

The question was:

Which is it?

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@FBM,

Quote:

So I'm guessing from your red herrings and strawment ...

You seem to delight in reeling off names of known logical fallacies without really knowing how and when they actually apply.

Ever heard of the "non sequitur" fallacy?

The question was: WHICH IS IT?

Until you retract and renounce at least one of your contradictory statements, and clear up the logical mess and ambiguities created by same, there is no way to pursue the topic with you.

WHICH IS IT?

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Why do people deny evolution?

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