Why do people deny evolution?

Amen.

If you are referring to the trees and rock quote . I'm basically saying everything is contained within the consciousness, the experience, experiencer and the experienced or the seeing seer and the seen are all mental constructs within the realm of consciousness.



This has nothing to do with the dialogue we are having here and like you said it was acknowledge and put right elsewhere.






How is it mangled? If they are both in the consciousness and the consciousness is unreal in itself, then you can't say one part of it is real and the other is not. That is the contradiction. It is a valid point.

If you look from an absolute perspective, all thought is mangled. Why do we think at all? It is because of that which cannot be thought about; perception is there because of that which we cannot perceive. All mental formations are memory based.




How can you logically say that?

If you look at it logically you realise that all your logic is based on the illogical notion that you are a body and mind, which is obviously not the case. This body form does not manifest the trees, rocks, clouds, sky, ocean and all other things we experience as the world; it is the source that gives rise to all of this - YOU! Only YOU have identified with this body form .

As a matter of FACT, you only know that you exist, your body and mind only appear to exist because of your presence. You are nothing but consciousness. Whatever you think to be outside of this consciousness can only be an inference. Whatever appears in this consciousness is only an appearance. Somebody must be there FIRST before anything can appear.

It is a scientific fact; "outside" an "inside" are mental constructs. What you take to be outside is inside and what you take to be inside is outside. Your thoughts and your feelings are external, they happen to you. What are you doing ? You are identifying with some particular ripple in the consciousness and you become sentimental; you call it your own, and identify it as your own thought. You make it part and parcel of who you think you are. THINK being the operational word here.

The moment this consciousness becomes embodied, there is duality; it is a condition based on the reality. When this body disappears duality disappears. When the body reappears duality also reappears. What is the basic function of this consciousness ? It is your beingness.
Beingness is fundamental and inherent in the consciousness; thinking is secondary and is relative to the content of the consciousness.

If you watch yourself you will notice that your consciousness is intermittent; there are gaps. What are these gaps? It is when you are no longer self conscious of the image that you project. When you are not self conscious your real being emerges.

What is this being? It is the total functioning of the consciousness. To understand take the simile of a watch. Open the back and you have all parts working in unison, each particular part has a particular function. And each particular function compels the other to function. Now what constitute the total functioning of that watch? It is the telling of time.

Similarly, when you are in your waking state you are also compelled by the things that are happening around you, whether you are conscious of them or not. Even in your inadvertence it is still functioning. Subliminally or otherwise you are prompted by your environment. And the total functioning arises in you. Whatever action comes out of you is the total functioning of the consciousness.

The total functioning of the whole universe culminates in you. But what you see as the whole universe is a mental construct. That mental construct happens inside your head; everything. The trees, rocks, the sky; moon, the stars, all planets and the people on this planet. Even time and space are only mental constructs. They are all expressions of your beingness.




To be sure of yourself (and to all intent and purpose that's all you need be) you must know yourself as you are. Whatever you do not understand, you become a slave to. That which you understand you become the master of.

You must investigate yourself thoroughly until your conviction in the knowledge that you are becomes strong. You must trace it back to the source, which is yourself.

In order for the consciousness to know itself there must be a world and a body to experience it. The expression and knowingness of this is beingness.

If you are earnest in your investigation, you will come to the point where it cannot be refuted. When you see yourself as you are without the imagination you are presence; here and now. Now is always; here is everywhere.

There is no beginning or ending to you, you only imagine that you were born and that you are going to die simply because you do not know yourself as you are. Get to know the real you and the false will gradually disappear along with the idea of birth and death.

As long as you think you are a body and mind you necessarily make yourself small and will have difficulty in understanding any of this.

You must learn to see things as they are. Your body occupies the space and you mind is in time. What you see out there is only a projection, a picture; all your questions refer to the picture that you are projecting.

If the picture jumps about on the movie screen, you don't go up to the screen to try and fix it, the problem will be at the source "the projector" that which is projecting the picture.

Fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the world, it is the picture that you are creating and projecting on to the mirror of your mind that is where the fault lies; there is where the chaos is.



You don't because there are no others. Like I said it is all mentally constructed. In reality there is only you in existence. Even this is not quite right, you do not even exist; you are only dreaming.

There is only one consciousness diversity and multiplicity is only in your mind. What you see of the others is only an appearance, based on name, shape, colour and form. A reflection of the watcher on the mirror of your mind.

If you stand in front of a mirror and hold another mirror along side, you will get a better understanding of what I'm trying to put across to you . It is analogous to how it appears in your mind, in your mind all the colours, shapes and forms are there, you add the design according to your likes and dislikes. There is nobody here but you. You have populated your world with things people and places.

As a body/mind you are nothing but a bundle of desires and fears, hopes and dreams, habits and reactions. This is a world of your own making; it is private and personal, nobody knows it and nobody shares it, it is yours truly.

Do not delude yourself into thinking that you share a world with others. All these others have their own respective world that they have created for themselves. But all this is seen in YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS. This must be understood. Nothing exists outside of your consciousness.

[/quote]How does anyone know that...if there are others?[/quote]

What you see is a reflection of yourself. Like I said nobody knows about the others because in reality there are no others to know about. You only know yourself and its many expressions which you "ASSUME" to be other separate from yourself. Thus you think the world to be separate and therefore yourself in it. You are not in a world, the world is in you. It is your creation. You are the creator and destroyer of all there is in this field of consciousness.



Because rocks and trees appear and disappear , there is something prior to them that is not so transient. It is the source from all things emanate; it is permanent and what it manifests is necessarily impermanent. The source is what makes it possible for the tree and rocks to appear in the first place. It is the unmanifested that makes it possible for the manifested to appear.

You must have your standing here and now. Here and now is also conceptual, but what makes it unique? it has the stamp of reality. What ever disappears and reappears cannot be real. There must be something permanent that enables the appearance and disappearance of things to manifest. The transient cannot be real, only that which is permanent carries the stamp of reality. Eliminate a that essential and what you are left with is real.

The body is a product of the mind, mind is in the consciousness; consciousness is in awareness, awareness is in and beyond the consciousness. In consciousness you are only the witness but that is as far as the consciousness goes. Ultimately you are the supreme reality, an infinite potential.

What do you know of me? Only the image that you have conjured up. From your perspective what is real, you or the idea you have of me? From your perspective I only exist as a figment of your imagination. It is the same with all others within the field of your consciousness or life if you like. It makes no different what words are used, in truth they are irrelevant.



All these distinction you are formulating refer to the picture only and you are projecting this picture onto yourself. The reality which in essence is yourself and in substance the world; is not in the appearance of things. You must get your mind out of the way to understand. It is not the mind that knows, somebody knows because of the mind. Take this as fact otherwise the mind will dictate to you that which is based on the content of your memory. Not to say that the memory is wrong, to all intent and purpose it serves us will in remembering ourselves as we are and not as we images based on the CONTENT of memory. What is real can not be contained in the memory or be of the memory. It is not something that you perceive; perception is memory. To understand you must apperceive.



I am doing nothing but telling you how I came to know.

If you imagine yourself to be something in particular or even the sum total of all particulars then you are guessing.

See it as it is and you will come to know yourself as you are; be real and you will come to know the real. That is all you can do. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you actually know; you only know that you exist and that is a you know. That is how I came to know, it is as simple as that.

If you want to find something in this material world you keep your mind on the thing until it is found. The same principle applies when you conduct an investigation into yourself - keep your mind on yourself and don't be mislead by the things in which the mind becomes attracted to. If you are honest and earnest in your conviction the consciousness will reveal all its secrets.

If your your child is mischievous behind your back you turn around and face the child, then you will know. You must do the same with yourself; look at yourself square on. Don't take it from anybody else, unless they are pointing to you. Otherwise whatever they are saying will not be valid because first their existence must be verified by you. You have already implied this. How can you verify somebody else's existence if you cannot even verify your own? You know you exist but how can you demonstrate that?

You cannot figure it out by looking at the picture that YOU are projecting, this body form is only an image, it is only an appearance based on the conviction that you are a body, Only that which is permanent can give you the answers and that is yourself. You wouldn't try to adjusting your clothes on the image in the mirror, you make the adjustment at source which is the body standing before the mirror.

Similarly, to change the image that you have of the world (that includes your body) that is reflected in the mirror of your mind, you go to the source which is yourself. You must do this whilst your are alive so that when the consciousness in this body evacuates, the picture disappears and disappears for good. Just as the apple fall off the tree in ripeness without returning.

You only need understand this once, then you are free, the cycle comes to an end.

If the chick in the shell does not break free from its shell it will suffer and die. You must also break from free of your mould. Waking suffering and dying is an endless cycle, only you can break it.

Remember, figure this out whilst you are alive, because the moment death comes the slate is wiped clean. beyond this point there is no knowingness.

If you go out with a concept, that energy must be spent in the form of another cycle of waking and sleeping. And remember there is no telling how that concept will emerge and take shape. Once you are born into a body anything can happen.

Due to the limited time span for editing, there are a few paragraphs which contain some grammatical errors, if you can understand without words this will not be a problem. However if you need words then you will have to mark them up for clarification.

I think most of your mistakes are less due to "limited time for editing"...as they are to the fact that even you have almost no respect for your "thoughts." They are a jumble...and ill-considered.

I'll respond to some of this nonsense in a bit.

You do not know that...you are merely guessing that...and probably saying it because you think it sounds profound.

Fact is, it doesn't sound profound...it sounds jumbled, amateurish and naive.



If you cannot see that it is a mangled sentence...I doubt anyone here will take the trouble to show you why it is. If you know any bright 5th graders...one of them might take that time. I am sure a bright 5th grader could do a good job of showing you why it is.



Wow. Where did that word "if" come from?



IF you want to pretend to be profound, Ellease...go somewhere where there are people easily tricked into thinking that petty "philosophy" you spew is profound. It will not work here...and probably will not work among most adults.




One I have NEVER suggested the illogical notion that I am body and mind. In fact, I agree to do so would be illogical. But to suggest that I am not body and mind...is equally illogical.

I do not suggest in either direction, because I am adult enough to acknowledge that I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...and that the true nature of IT may very well be something way beyond what we think we know.

Well...that is enough for now. If you want to state one single comment about this drivel you are trying to sell here and discuss that, I will do so. But not this long rambling, mangled crap you are setting out.

Name the single most important ingredient in your general theme...and we will discuss that.

Frankly, if I were you, I would bake your ideas a bit more first. They are still batter.

Frankly frank, it wouldn't make much difference whether baked or unbaked. First there must be intelligence for discernment.

You are an ignorant old fool and a stupid one at that. As the saying goes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I would much rather sit and watch paint dry than have a conversation with a sock puppet that's completely soaked in ignorance and nearing his sell by date. Go play golf or something, you disappoint me frank.

Ordinarily you associate old age with wisdom. Here it is the complete opposite. I've witnessed more intelligence in an infant.

It beats me how someone could reach such seniority and be so ignorant and foolish.

Of course you can be anything you want according to your mind. However my standing is in the absolute where relativity does not exists.

You do not know the nature of reality because you are ignorant of your self it is as simple as that.

Who do you expect to come and tell you, mummy? You say you are an adult, act like one. Find out for yourself. Use the little bit of intelligence you have left and work it out for yourself.

What is the point in raising anything with you frank, you are dreaming that's the basic ingredient.

Now unless you can differentiate between the actual and the remembered, there is no point in discussing anything further with you.

What is the difference between the actual and the remembered frank?

Actually, I am not ignorant or a fool or stupid.

You are a name-caller...although not an especially original one.




But the fact remains...one can. It is one of those false adages.



"Sitting and watching paint dry" sounds like something you might be good at. Now...if you could get someone to pay you for doing it, you'd be home free.



I doubt that...but there is no requirement that you be honest in what you post here in A2K...so continue down that path.

Don't mind the snickering.




I imagine there are lots of things that "beat you", Ellease.

You asserted I suggested something...and I told you I have NEVER suggested any such thing. You simply made it up.

Now, instead of acknowledging that you were wrong...

...you are doing more blathering.

You will get nowhere here trying to pretend you are a person of great understanding about REALITY, Ellease.

But it is amusing watching you try.

No, I am not ignorant. I am simply being truthful about what I know and what I do not know.

You ought to give that a try.



You really do have control problems, Ellease. First grow up...then suggest that others do it.

Yeah...I suspect even you realize this "cake" you are trying to sell...is not even half-baked. It is batter, at best.

Nice evasion.

And it was your best move!

Frankly, that's a matter of an opinion frank. It appears that something must hit you real hard for it to register



There is no need to be original in your case, your are not that much aware in any case.

One can, but the one here is not only ignorant, he is ignorant of his own ignorance. In such instances it is highly unlike a new trick would be accepted. It would be a task and a half just to get you out of the sock in order to entice you in the first place. So the fact still remains, you are ignorant.

That's just your problem frank, like a child you imagine too much, hence the reason why you do not know the nature of the reality. Obviously you are growing old but growing up seems to be a real challenge for you.

Try thinking for yourself for a change, it might help.

Your need to call people stupid, ignorant, or foolish says MUCH more about you and what appear to be your insecurities...than about the people to whom you direct those childish remarks, Ellease.



Your need (to try) to belittle people says MUCH more about you and what appear to be your insecurities...than about the people to whom you direct those childish remarks, Ellease.

Save this stuff for the kids back at the sandbox. Then, try to get a grip on it...and you may eventually be able to interact with the adults.

Your insecurities are showing, Ellease!

I am enjoying you put them on display.

Your insecurities are showing very clearly, Ellease.

I almost want to apologize for enjoying the show so much.

But...