132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 01:07 pm
@MontereyJack,
I need of Ad Hominems again, mate?

Something I said????


0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 01:15 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
If you close your eyes and yell, "NYAH, NYAH, NYAH, NYAH, NYAH!" then no one else will see the evidence either.

That seems be your mantra.

Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 01:44 pm
@parados,
Quote:
If you close your eyes and yell, "NYAH, NYAH, NYAH, NYAH, NYAH!" then no one else will see the evidence either.

That seems be your mantra.


You really, really want to think that, right?

Interesting!

Far from the truth of course. But you have to convince yourself, because otherwise you can't handle the fact that there is no evidence.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 03:44 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quahog again presents us with his single trick pony, "nayevdence"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 03:46 pm
@parados,
His real mantra is "I don't know much about anything." I want proof, evidence, facts - but I'll ignore them, because they're all fakes!
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 03:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
His real mantra is "I don't know much about anything." I want proof, evidence, facts - but I'll ignore them, because they're all fakes!


lol


Nice try! Not true of course but a nice try!

I won't ignore any evidence.


Gee, you really have to convince yourself of this. Funny in a way if you think about this.Smile
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 03:57 pm
Quote:

Dallas “researchers” out to scientifically prove biblical version of creation

By Matt Young on August 16, 2014 10:35 AM | 151 Comments




The scare quotes are my gloss, but that is the headline of a credulous Dallas Morning News article on the “research” being conducted at the Institute for Creation “Research.” The article quotes Pat Robertson to the effect that it is silly – or, rather, looks silly – to deny the clear geologic record, but mostly the author appears to take the “research” seriously. Indeed, he makes the point that Charity Navigator gives ICR a 3-star rating, which, to my mind, means only that they waste contributions efficiently.

Buried at the tail end of the article, no doubt for “balance” (using a lot of scare quotes today; sorry), the author interviews Ron Wetherington, an anthropologist at Southern Methodist University. Professor Wetherington observes, correctly, that ICR puts the cart before the horse:



The problem is, they’re not scientists. They cherry-pick data in order to use it to justify the Genesis account of creation.

Sure enough, the ICR scientists claim that spiral galaxies, ocean salinity, and the (surprising) existence of soft tissue in dinosaur bones are clear evidence against what they call evolutionary naturalism. Real scientists, notes Prof. Wetherington, constantly test their hypotheses, rather than simply “line up facts to support a hypothesis.”

Professor Wetherington is careful not to disparage anyone else’s religion, which I suppose is a laudable position. But frankly when a scientist’s religion teaches something that is contrary to known fact and by his own admission prevents that scientist from getting a real job in a real research laboratory, then maybe it is time to admit that it is the religious view, not the science, that needs drastic modification.


SOURCE "The Panda's Thumb Archive August 2014"
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Sat 22 Nov, 2014 10:30 pm


Quote:
Climate Change, Evolution: Here's Why We Disagree
Nov 22, 2014, 9:16 AM ET
COLUMN by LEE DYE via WORLD NEWS

A growing body of evidence suggests that the passionate debate over public issues ranging from climate change to evolution has little to do with the facts. It has more to do with who we are, which tribe we belong to, and what we hope the future holds.

New research from Duke University, for example, concludes that the science of climate change isn't the real issue in that debate. The proposed solutions to that problem -- including bigger government and more regulations -- lead many to conclude that there isn't a real problem. And even if there is, we humans are not to blame.

In other words, people are denying the very existence of climate change because they don't like the solutions, and Duke researchers Troy Campbell and Aaron C. Kay have coined a new phrase for it: solution aversion.
...
The evidence for evolution is readily available, very convincing, and it shows that evolution is a gradual process involving small changes over a very long period of time. To deny evolution, a person must refuse to even look at this evidence.

Then why did I get a question on my column last week on Darwin's dilemma that has not changed much over decades: If we came from apes, one reader asked, why are there still apes in Africa?

No kidding. In all the books, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, written over the years there is not a single line that suggests humans came from apes. We have a common ancestor, and if you go back far enough you will find a common ancestor for every animal that has ever lived on this planet.

To ask such a question as my reader posed last week reveals a level of ignorance that is astounding. I'm not suggesting he is stupid, because very bright persons have questions about evolution, but something has quite clearly kept him from even looking at the evidence. Perhaps it is fear that his peers will disapprove, or his ideology will crumble, or his tribe will kick him out.
...


Full story here: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/climate-change-evolution-disagree/story?id=26939619
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Sun 23 Nov, 2014 01:11 am
@FBM,
lol, nice try, but won't work.

SAYING there is evidence for evolution doesn't mean there is!

georgeob1
 
  4  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 09:41 am
@Quehoniaomath,
And saying there isn't any such evidence, in the face of overwhelming evidence that this theory is indeed descriptive of observable facts, is merely stupid.

However, as you have already given us all ample evidence of your ignorance of the facts and pig-headed, stubborn stupidity, this is redundant.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 10:24 am
@georgeob1,
Its been redundant for quite awhile now, but they keep trying with their idiocy.
Scientists are paid to say those things, and there's no proof!

TNCFS
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 12:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
hmmmm, how many times must idiocy be repeated before it is truly redundant?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 08:20 pm
Interesting read, I thought: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/11/you-cant-educate-people-into-believing-in-evolution/382983/2/

Quote:
You Can't Educate People Into Believing in Evolution
EMMA GREENNOV 23 2014, 8:00 AM ET
Often, this is because teachers want to avoid "controversy," the authors write. But all the anxiety around the origins of human life may partially be a matter of framing, Rosenau said.

"No creationist wakes up in the morning and says, 'I have really strong opinions about whether Archaeopteryx is the ancestor of modern birds,'" he said.* "Who are we as people? That’s the question that they think evolution is answering. What does it mean to be a person? What does it mean to be an animal?"

In other words, the cliche of pitting science against religion is a category error, to a certain extent: Evolutionary biology provides certain insights into the mechanisms of how human life has formed and changed over time, but it can't provide insight into the meaning behind those changes. Yet the meaning part is often what matters in vitriolic "debates" about the origins of life.

"No creationist wakes up in the morning and says, 'I have really strong opinions about whether Archaeopteryx is the ancestor of modern birds.'"
“The psychological need to see purpose, that is really interesting," said Jeffrey Hardin, a professor of zoology at the University of Wisconsin, at the Faith Angle Forum in Miami on Tuesday. “Many Christians consider Neo-Darwinian theory to be dysteleological, or lacking in purpose." Hardin is himself an evangelical Christian; he often speaks with church communities about evolution in his work with the BioLogos Foundation. In these conversations, he said, many evangelicals point to statements like that of paleontologist George Gaylord Simpson, who wrote in his 1967 book, The Meaning of Evolution, "Man is the result of a purposeless and materialistic process that did not have him in mind. He was not planned." When this is echoed by outspoken atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, Hardin said, "Evangelicals look at it and go, ‘I can’t accept that, and therefore I cannot accept thinking at all about evolutionary biology.'"

But ultimately, this may be what matters most for influencing Americans' opinions on the origins of life. In his report, Hill found that religious belief was the strongest determinant of people's views on evolution—much more so than education, socioeconomic status, age, political views, or region of the country. More importantly, being part of a community where people had stated opinions on evolution or creation, like a church, had a big impact on people's views. "Creationists are substantially more likely to belong to networks who agree with them about human origins," he wrote. "Likewise, creationists are more likely to belong to congregations who have settled positions that reject human evolution."

What that means is that "debates" about evolution and creationism actually might not be that effective. "For those invested in the position that human evolution is compatible with orthodox Christian faith, the findings from
[this survey] tell us that persuasion needs to move beyond a purely intellectual level," Hill wrote. "Ideas are important, but ideas only persuade when individuals are in a social position that allows them to seriously consider what is before them." For those who value the widespread acceptance of evolution, this is an important insight: There may be more effective ways to persuade people to consider principles of biology without trying to debunk the existence of God.

"This is the century of biology, and evolution is the foundation of biology," Rosenau said. "Being open to those conversations is really important for scientists."

As for those who are concerned with being cosmically correct, like the hardcore creationists or the Richard Dawkinses of the world, there may not be many options available by way of persuasion. Classroom discussions aren't the most important factor in shaping people's views, and many people are either unsure or don't care about being right.


It seems that most people simply believe what they're going to believe about the metaphysical nature of the universe.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 08:30 pm
@FBM,
I believe most of us who support evolution already knew why people of religion has difficulty with "the theory of evolution." They refuse to accept evolutionary biology; the basis for which there are numerable evidence if we wish to 'see' them.
I can understand to some degree where "they're coming from." It's a huge hurdle for those who must believe in creationism.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 08:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yup. Critical reasoning requires merciless examination of one's own knowledge claims, not just those of others. I was a believer - though never a creationist - before I studied Philosophy and eventually turned the tools of critical thought on myself. I think it's something one has to arrive at for oneself. Like the author of that article, I doubt it's something that can be forced on someone who's unwilling, no matter how much evidence and necessary inference you show them. The appeal of a cosmic Santa who knows and loves you and promises eternal reward is just too strong.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 08:59 pm
@FBM,
amen!
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Mon 24 Nov, 2014 11:38 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
The appeal of a cosmic Santa who knows and loves you and promises eternal reward is just too strong.


The "reward" is to sit at the feet of the almighty, and bask in his glory. For eternity. The penalty for not cowtowing to the demand for fealty; eternal damnation and suffering.

Those are the conditions described in NPD texts.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 25 Nov, 2014 12:43 am
@Builder,
Hmm. Has he declared exactly which god he is claiming to have created the universe? There are lots to choose from.
Builder
 
  1  
Tue 25 Nov, 2014 02:43 am
@FBM,
No idea, at this point.

And not so sure that it really matters to me.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Tue 25 Nov, 2014 02:59 am
@FBM,
FBM's article wrote:
"Evangelicals look at it and go, ‘I can’t accept that, and therefore I cannot accept thinking at all about evolutionary biology."


This is really basic human psychology. The religiously devout are wedded inseparably to a set of certainties, and are not open to anything to do with evidence. It is the culture wars for them, and those who insist on the viability of evolutionary biology are the enemy.

EDIT: I should add that the two sides are not speaking the same language.
 

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