132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:14 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
And you think you have intelligence?
      ... no, no, the evidence is your personal intelligence ... presented with an avatar of your grandfather reading a newspaper 2 centuries ago.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:14 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

...Evidence No.1: Our own intelligence is so complex that there is no way for it to have appeared from green algae and cyanobacteria on casino auto-pilot. I cannot say whether it is absolutely impossible, but for sure it is extremely improbable - much beyond the absolute margin of plausible impossibility (the probability for a human to pass through a wall of reinforced concrete).


Ah. The ol' argument from complexity. Complexity is improbable? No. Practically inevitable given the location and composition of our little planet.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

(Creationist argument bolded.)

Quote:
8. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance.
Chance plays a part in evolution (for example, in the random mutations that can give rise to new traits), but evolution does not depend on chance to create organisms, proteins or other entities. Quite the opposite: natural selection, the principal known mechanism of evolution, harnesses nonrandom change by preserving "desirable" (adaptive) features and eliminating "undesirable" (nonadaptive) ones. As long as the forces of selection stay constant, natural selection can push evolution in one direction and produce sophisticated structures in surprisingly short times.

As an analogy, consider the 13-letter sequence "TOBEORNOTTOBE." Those hypothetical million monkeys, each pecking out one phrase a second, could take as long as 78,800 years to find it among the 2613 sequences of that length. But in the 1980s Richard Hardison of Glendale College wrote a computer program that generated phrases randomly while preserving the positions of individual letters that happened to be correctly placed (in effect, selecting for phrases more like Hamlet's). On average, the program re-created the phrase in just 336 iterations, less than 90 seconds. Even more amazing, it could reconstruct Shakespeare's entire play in just four and a half days.


Like the computer program, and unlike the hypothetical monkeys, DNA preserves successful mutations via natural selection. It doesn't start from scratch with every organism, otherwise you'd have little genetic resemblance to your relatives, much less humanity as a whole. However, our genetic similarity to chimps and bonobos approaches 99%. It's not a genetic free-for-all every time a baby is born. Plenty of genetic evidence exists to demonstrate this.

So. Tit for tat? Now it's your turn to show some real evidence for your god, not just metaphysical speculation and word wrangling. Evidence.
parados
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:16 pm
@Herald,
I see you couldn't respond to the substance of the post. I guess that was the indirect answer to my question about whether you thought you had intelligence.
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:22 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Ah. The ol' argument from complexity. Complexity is improbable? No. Practically inevitable given the location and composition of our little planet.
      ... and can you write down equation by equation how has our own intelligence evolved from the lightnings ... and the aminoacid polymers of FM. Can you backup any of the equations you will write down with some experimental test verification and confirmation. Can you write down the equations of the evolution - any theory can be presented by math formal models - only the 'theories' that stand above the things (are inconsistent as a theory, not as a set of claims) could be an exclusion of that.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:23 pm
@Herald,
Evidence. For your god. Got any? Scientists have tons and tons for evolution via natural selection. Your turn.
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:25 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
I see you couldn't respond to the substance of the post. I guess that was the indirect answer to my question about whether you thought you had intelligence.
     You aggression is irrelevant to the topic, and hence your question is invalid ... as a question. I don't have the slightest intention to answer to invalid questions.
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:32 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Evidence. For your god. Got any? Scientists have tons and tons for evolution via natural selection. Your turn.
     Why this 'tons and tons for evolution' reminds me to some 'millions and billions of years ... of evolution ... of the stars'. Obviously this 'scientific' method of evolutionary explanations is highly contagious ... as vicious practices.
     BTW this 'tons and tons' are not evidences for any evolution - they are simply evidences for the history record of life on earth ... and for nothing else. The correlations derived from the fossils are too superficial and too morphological to prove any processes 'proving' any rapid genetic changes (more than 2% over 3 billion for the appearance of a new species ... & all of them being dominant) - isn't that too much suspicious
parados
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:33 pm
@Herald,
So you have no evidence that we are the first and best in the universe. OK. We got that. That means you have no basis to attack anyone else for not having evidence since you make outlandish statements without evidence.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:36 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
Evidence. For your god. Got any? Scientists have tons and tons for evolution via natural selection. Your turn.
     Why this 'tons and tons for evolution' reminds me to some 'millions and billions of years ... of evolution ... of the stars'. Obviously this 'scientific' method of evolutionary explanations is highly contagious ... as vicious practices.
     BTW this 'tons and tons' are not evidences for any evolution - they are simply evidences for the history record of life on earth ... and for nothing else. The correlations derived from the fossils are too superficial and too morphological to prove any processes in rapid genetic changes (more than 2% over 3 billion for the appearance of a new species) ... all of them being dominant - isn't that too much suspicious


Well, maybe you can convince the leading scientists of your opinion by backing it up with some evidence for your explanation of how things came about. Y'know, by giving some solid, testable evidence and subsequent necessary inference to support it, instead of just rhetoric.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:44 pm
@FBM,

Herald wrote,
Quote:
BTW this 'tons and tons' are not evidences for any evolution - they are simply evidences for the history record of life on earth ... and for nothing else.


Yes, it's called 'EVOLUTION.' The 'history record of life on earth' does exactly that! Life forms must acclimate to their environment or die. The land mass of this planet continues to shift with climate changes that spans 100,000 years that we call ice ages.

Quote:


Summary of 100,000 Years
Over a period of 100,000 years, a great deal can occur in terms of climate change and, at least in the past 100,000 years, in human development.

As we examine in Climate Science, scientists have become increasingly aware of multi-millennial scale orbital cycles of precession, eccentricity and obliquity which can play an important role in the rise and fall of ice ages. In in Climate History we explore how during the past 100,000 years ago, human beings-- Homo sapiens - have developed from our hominid ancestors, adapting to rugged climates, such as in Europe 40,000 years ago. And in Resources, various links and inquiry ideas are offered for you to dig deeper into these topics.


Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Yes, it's called 'EVOLUTION.'
      What do you mean by evolution. Evolution is simply a Jesuit statement, it is not a theory. It claims that somehow the species evolve into one another with the time (and succeed to remain clean as species also with the time), and for sufficiently long time new species appear due to some processes ... and that processes for sure are not 'successful mutations'.
     Can you name any 'successful mutation' with the humans, for example. We are over 7 billion - there must be in that number some 'successful mutation' ... in the past 200 thousand years. Can you name any ... some man-amphibian, or some flying spider-man, or whatever?
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:30 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Well, maybe you can convince the leading scientists of your opinion by backing it up with some evidence for your explanation of how things came about.
      ... or maybe I am missing key information about all that ... and unfortunately it is not only me missing the information - it might have been irreversibly lost, it might be inaccessible to us ... at this stage, but for sure there is some missing information & perhaps 'some new ideas are here needed'.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:36 pm
@Herald,
Do you own a dictionary? How is it possible to be so stupid? A dictionary defines the meaning of words. Here's one on "evolution." Different dictionaries have a slightly different interpretation, but the fundamental meaning is the same.

Quote:
ev·o·lu·tion
ˌevəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: evolution; plural noun: evolutions

1. the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
synonyms: Darwinism, natural selection
"his interest in evolution"
2 the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
"the forms of written languages undergo constant evolution"
synonyms: development, advancement, growth, rise, progress, expansion, unfolding; More


Here are five proofs of evolution.
Quote:
Five Proofs of Evolution
In this article, we look at five simple examples which support the Theory of Evolution.
by Richard Peacock

1. The universal genetic code. All cells on Earth, from our white blood cells, to simple bacteria, to cells in the leaves of trees, are capable of reading any piece of DNA from any life form on Earth. This is very strong evidence for a common ancestor from which all life descended.



2. The fossil record. The fossil record shows that the simplest fossils will be found in the oldest rocks, and it can also show a smooth and gradual transition from one form of life to another.

Please watch this video for an excellent demonstration of fossils transitioning from simple life to complex vertebrates.



3. Genetic commonalities. Human beings have approximately 96% of genes in common with chimpanzees, about 90% of genes in common with cats (source), 80% with cows (source), 75% with mice (source), and so on. This does not prove that we evolved from chimpanzees or cats, though, only that we shared a common ancestor in the past. And the amount of difference between our genomes corresponds to how long ago our genetic lines diverged.



4. Common traits in embryos. Humans, dogs, snakes, fish, monkeys, eels (and many more life forms) are all considered "chordates" because we belong to the phylum Chordata. One of the features of this phylum is that, as embryos, all these life forms have gill slits, tails, and specific anatomical structures involving the spine. For humans (and other non-fish) the gill slits reform into the bones of the ear and jaw at a later stage in development. But, initially, all chordate embryos strongly resemble each other.

In fact, pig embryos are often dissected in biology classes because of how similar they look to human embryos. These common characteristics could only be possible if all members of the phylum Chordata descended from a common ancestor.



5. Bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Bacteria colonies can only build up a resistance to antibiotics through evolution. It is important to note that in every colony of bacteria, there are a tiny few individuals which are naturally resistant to certain antibiotics. This is because of the random nature of mutations.

When an antibiotic is applied, the initial innoculation will kill most bacteria, leaving behind only those few cells which happen to have the mutations necessary to resist the antibiotics. In subsequent generations, the resistant bacteria reproduce, forming a new colony where every member is resistant to the antibiotic. This is natural selection in action. The antibiotic is "selecting" for organisms which are resistant, and killing any that are not.


Wilso
 
  1  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 01:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
I love those simple explanations. I also love reading FM's, but his intelligence is so far over my head I can't see the bottom.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 02:27 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
Well, maybe you can convince the leading scientists of your opinion by backing it up with some evidence for your explanation of how things came about.
      ... or maybe I am missing key information about all that ... and unfortunately it is not only me missing the information - it might have been irreversibly lost, it might be inaccessible to us ... at this stage, but for sure there is some missing information & perhaps 'some new ideas are here needed'.


Not a lot of missing evidence on the scientists' side, compared to the missing evidence for yours. You got absolutely nothing but a Bronze Age myth, while scientists are accumulating more and more evidence daily.

Just a single, commonplace, back-page development such as this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141031121244.htm

Quote:
Lack of oxygen delayed the rise of animals on Earth
Date: October 31, 2014
Source: Yale University
Summary:
Scientists have long speculated as to why animal species didn't flourish sooner, once sufficient oxygen covered the Earth's surface. Animals began to prosper at the end of the Proterozoic period -- but what about the billion-year stretch before that, when most researchers think there also was plenty of oxygen? Yale University researcher Noah Planavsky and his colleagues found that oxygen levels during the 'boring billion' period were only 0.1 percent of what they are today.


contains more evidence than all your scriptues and rhetoric combined. Wake up and smell the coffee, man. You can rid yourself of your delusion through education. If you've got even this much credible, testable evidence, how about writing it up and publishing it in a peer-reviewed journal instead of trying to sell your god of the gaps to A2K people? Run it up the flagpole and let's see who salutes it.
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 03:17 am
@FBM,
Quote:
contains more evidence than all your scriptues and rhetoric combined. Wake up and smell the coffee, man. You can rid yourself of your delusion through education. If you've got even this much credible, testable evidence, how about writing it up and publishing it in a peer-reviewed journal instead of trying to sell your god of the gaps to A2K people? Run it up the flagpole and let's see who salutes it.


Are you really sure? You think there is no vested interest behind this? No hidden agenda? Nu human faults etc?
And it is stated "billion of years" Well, that is idiotic! The dating methods are sooooo unreliable you can't trust them, and of course, as always, lot of circular reasoning by the religion eh oeps 'scientists'.

It is really hilarious how they are trying to cling to this nonsensen.
And furthermore how extremely non-sceptic they are regarding their own stupid theories. That in itself is a big red flag of course.


AND STILL NO EVIDENCE IS GIVEN, MEANING NO INTERMEDIATE FOSSILS. IT SEEMS TO BE REALLY REALLY DIFFICULT FOR THESE RELIGIOUS NUTS.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 05:56 am
@Herald,
Quote:
maybe I am missing key information about all that ... and unfortunately it is not only me missing the information - it might have been irreversibly lost, it might be inaccessible to us ... at this stage, but for sure there is some missing information & perhaps 'some new ideas are here needed'

Then it can hardly be called "evidence" can it? Its what FBM has been calling "Bronze Aged Myths" and nothing more. So much evidence in science agrees from all different disciplines based on careful study methods. For example, we know the ages of several Australopithecene specimens and early Hominims by being able to date specific crystals found in ash layers that are both :higher" and "lower" than the specimens as well as K/Ar and Ar/Ar dates from the ash itself. Weve , in essence, BLOCKED IN the dates of existence of these specimensby accurate radioisotopic dates.
Have Biblical Archeologists tested the Bronze Age myth by using Uranium dating or C14 dating?? (Well, yes they have, but not with results desired by Fundamentalist Creationists).
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 06:15 am
yawnnnnnn still no evidence!
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:36 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Yup, I agree. You've not provided any evidence of your god(s). NONE, NADA, ZERO.

When your brain refuses to acknowledge all the proof of evolution, it's no wonder your brian is calcified permanently.

PLEASE PROVIDE ONE PROOF OF YOUR GOD.

0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Thu 6 Nov, 2014 04:11 am
And is it not totally clear that 'evolution' is always a concept!
And, as we know, concepts, never become facts! NEVER.
 

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