People tend to equate intelligence with simpler language

Winston Churchill was keen on clear uncluttered speech...and prose style too, I think. Was it he who (as a put-down) coined the phrase, "I fear you have been guilty of a terminological inexactitude?"

He certainly said 'that is the sort of language up with which I shall not put'.

After some reflection, I now think I was indeed somewhat dense in suggesting that even without Lincoln, American politicians would have gotten religion around the same time as they did. I had mistakenly remembered the "religious revival" as having happened in the 1830s, not the 1730s. When I noticed my error, I thought it mattered less than I now think it does. I still think politicians would have gotten religion eventually, but my guess that it would have happened around Lincoln's time is unsubstantiated.


Britannica is innocent, I'm guilty. My memory of that article was completely false -- I re-read it, and it turns out to be consistent with what you said. Thanks for making me re-read the article, and sorry about wasting your time.

I don't think I was either dense or naive about the other issue though.


To some extent, they did. For example, our conservative party not only calls itself "Christian Democratic Union" -- its economic policy was always strongly influenced by Catholic social teaching. Liberals (as in "free market", not as in "Ted Kennedy") dislike this program because it's too socialist for their taste. Social Democrats dislike it because it relies too heavily on free markets for their taste. But I'm not aware of any German who dislikes this program because of its Catholic, or even Christian, background.

The phenomenon isn't limited to the right. When the environmental movement took off in the late 70s and the early 80s, they had a great deal of logistical, ideological, and rhetorical support from the Evangelic Lutheran Church of Germany. Again, the movement was fairly controversial, and so was its political arm, the Green party. But I don't think their religious background was ever a cause of controversy.

Setanta--

Thanks for the new perspective. You have been anointed Authority Of The Day in my universe.

Huh. So the legend about there being a written-on envelope is just that...

I've been thinking a bit about style and voice lately, while butting heads (mildly) with a writing instructor intent on purging every possible sentence of passive voice. She hates the phrase "...cannot be overemphasized," because of its passivity and its use of the negative. I vehemently disagree, and maintain that there is no phrase that can better convey the point. It's a standard phrase, damn it -- not an assemblage of words, but a complete whole.

Where was I? Ah, yes. Short's good. Some people can pull it off. Other folks are better suited to a more mellifluous style, in which meaning is conveyed not only through words but through structure, through occasionally disparate ideas or syntaxes brought together in a way that casts new light on both. Hell, maybe we can even enjoy language without having to resort to the weighty pretension of poetry. Prose needn't be prosaic.

For my part, though, I'll try to heed Polonius's advice, though he was frequently unable to do so. Which means that, no, you cannot borrow fifty bucks.

Patiodog -- you are vehemently agreed with.

Good. I will try to use your endorsement to my advantage, our mutual split infinitives notwithstanding.

(Also on language -- the wife's in law school, I'm mired in genetics textbooks and the like. Our house is like a black hole of jargon and official language as sensible to the rational mind as ritual incantation. Thank God for television and its power to restore normality to our lives.

In case you're wondering, I do believe that trying to masculinize a moisturizer and selling it to the midwestern American male is normal -- though we've already got Bag Balm coming out the wazoo.

Too much coffee.)

Thanks for the lesson in German politics, Thomas--as i mentioned, i've little idea of the terms or details of that political arena . . .

bag Balm --- are you in Wisconsin dog?

ere we use Berts Bee ****.hEY WAIT AMINIT
since when did your GF become your W?, belated congratulations .Heres a virtual wedding present . We went out and got you a fondue set that you, in another 10 years will be able to regift as fondue rolls around in its popularity cycle once agaain.


Eats shoots and leaves

How do you get Bert's bees to **** in a manner convenient to your operation, and how do you collect such miniscule turds?

I agree that Lincoln used religious imagery and allusions frequently while he was president, but he didn't start doing it in 1861 (remember his "House Divided" speech?).

Furthermore, I disagree with the notion that Lincoln was the first president to inject religion into politics. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single ante-bellum president who didn't mention God in his speeches and writings. Just a sample from some inaugural addresses:

George Washington (1789): ". . . it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge."

Thomas Jefferson (1805): "I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land, and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with his providence, and our riper years with his wisdom and power; and to whose goodness I ask you to join with me in supplications, that he will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures, that whatsoever they do, shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations."

J.Q. Adams (1825): ". . . knowing that "except the Lord keep the city the watchman waketh but in vain," with fervent supplications for His favor, to His overruling providence I commit with humble but fearless confidence my own fate and the future destinies of my country."

W.H. Harrison (1841): "I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to justify me in expressing to my fellow-citizens a profound reverence for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals, religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness; and to that good Being who has blessed us by the gifts of civil and religious freedom, who watched over and prospered the labors of our fathers and has hitherto preserved to us institutions far exceeding in excellence those of any other people, let us unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in all future time."

set, its much easier than getting goose semen, which is a topical analgesic. I dont wanna get into how one jo'S a goose.


or even Zachary Taylor " Jeezus, whats this green stuff in my wine glass?"

Love that Burt's Bees lip balm...delicious on toast.

Joe, i did not say that Lincoln commenced his religiosity in 1861--i wrote that it was only after his entry into politics. I've done the exercise of doing web searches of presidential pronouncements on relgion, and could put pages and pages here of firm statements by presidents and presidential candidates asserting the value of the principle of the separation of church and state.

Lincoln instituted the holiday of thanksgiving, with distinct religious overtones. As i mentioned earlier, Jackson had refused to do as much:



Those whom you have quoted did not, to my knowledge, introduce any distinctly religious initiatives into government. I consider the distinction valid. As i further remarked, given his history prior to his entry into politics, i consider this aspect of Lincoln's political behavior highly suspect--in fact, i consider it hypocricy. I also believe that his constant references to god and religion, while dealing with the secular matters of governance and war, opened the flood gates to the entry of religion into the public forum as had never before been the case.

A few years ago, I developed ThesaurusMan as one of my personalities in a chat room. It was a hoot finding the most complex or obscure words to convey a simple idea. Some people warmed to the gag, but most people reacted negatively.

My observation about real life is the same. IMO, most people do not like intelligent people, and find great pleasure in voicing their disdain.

Last weekend, f-man. Thank the Nevada gaming commission and whoever else is responsible for the general lack of interference by that great state in the lives of its and others' citizens.


(Sorry, Thomas, about the split infinitives comment. There are none.)






I anticipate with great… anticipation… the opportunity to have the… opportunity… make the acquaintance of the distinguished thesaurus man.

Since the study showed that people think that smart people use simple language, they musta thought ThesaurusMan was not one of the smart guys. It's not nice to be unkind to the not smart.

Hey, am I the only one who wishes our own Patiodog congrats for being married an entire week. ?
He got married in Vegas. That exudes total coolness, totally.

Tycoon, a previous post by fishin summed it up, lest one gets too self- congratulatory. I paraphrase
" Having a wide vocabulary is intelligence, knowing when to use it is wisdom".
I think it was fishin.

Thanks, f, but no congrats in order. It was done partly to manipulate a particular bureaucracy, and partly for kicks -- and it was definitely that. (Especially having a fully decked out bride in the audience, but not at the altar... And the guy with one eye, one hand, and three fingers who hit a kid on his bike on the way to the chapel. Good stuff.)

Yer married!

Wow!

To manipulate the bureaucracy blah blah blah... still cool. :-)