Islam, Jihad and Our Jugular Vein

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Islam, Jihad and Our Jugular Veinwww.jihadwatch.org. Then, study an unabridged version of the Qur'an ... and get ready to be freaked out.
3. Monitor mosques. We must check out and, if necessary, prohibit violence being preached and taught in mosques and religious schools in our country.
4. Make serious background checks on would be Muslim immigrants. We must find out whether they vocally and consistently have renounced jihad ideology and the elements of Islamic Shari'a law that are incompatible with the UN declaration of Human Rights.
5. Tighten up our borders -- land, sea and air -- against foreign intruders and their weapons of destruction.
6. Encourage the Reformation of Islam, from within by moderate Muslim scholars.

My ClashPoint is this: There certainly are millions of Muslims in the U.S. and abroad who do not support Bin Laden and his lethal ilk and al-Sadr's bloody threats. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that cool Muslims are the minority report, at least of those who are willing to take a stand. From what I've read of Islamic writings, unlike the New Testament of the Christian Bible, violence seems to be the specialty of the Islamic house.

If it's not, then moderate Muslim clerics must stand up and be counted. They need to short leash their violent adherents and revise their owner's manual, because both clearly work against their newly launched "peaceful-easy-feelin'" public relations campaign.

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I'd like to make two points:

First of all, the Islamic world is not a single monolith, just as the Communist world was not. Islam, as it is practiced in Saudi Arabia has quite a different character from how it is practiced in Turkey.

Secondly, I see all too many of our pundits viewing Islam as they want it to be, not as it actually is. This kind of hopeful self-delusion in the 1930s led to horrible results in the 1940s. Let's hope history does not repeat itself.

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Ah, rabble-rousing . . . a good ol' 'Merrican pasttime . . .

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Your see, with Christians, "Onward Christian Soldiers" has always been a metaphor - think of the Salvation Army - for us to fight with love issues of hate, poverty and homelessness. Not so with Islam and Mohammed.

Christian love, arriving and distributed via the cluster-bomb.

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As a balm to the fedral-style of simpleminded idiocy...
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html

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blatham wrote:

the fedral-style of simpleminded idiocy

That's not very nice.

Hugh Hewitt read an article on his show one day about Islam. I missed the author, and he didn't post it on his website, so I was never able to find it. He talked about how Mohammed went out on several jihads with his followers, and he explained that they were actually attacks on rich merchants traveling through the area so Mohammed and his gang could get their money. If you search on google.com for "Mohammed was a terrorist" you will find a lot of indignant writings about how Jerry Falwell was such a bad guy for saying that, but you will also find some websites that talk about Mohammed's jihads.

There were some other ideas in that article that are worthy of exploration. One idea was that once a region or item had belonged to Islam, it could not ever again belong to any non-Islamic entity. I don't recall the other ideas but the article was very interesting and I wish I could find it. I'm not a religious expert but I do think the whole issue of Islam needs further investigation. If there are organized groups educating children to advocate the violent overthrow of our government, it's worth more investigation.

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I'm not a religious expert but I do think the whole issue of Islam needs further investigation.

There are those of us here who have studied Islam, and find the ridiculous comments that you have made predictable.
Try Vartan Gregorian's Islam: A Mosaic, Not A Monolith, (New York: Brookings Institute Press, 2003), for starters. Karen Armstrong is also both informative and highly readable.

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If there are organized groups educating children to advocate the violent overthrow of our government, it's worth more investigation.

Fundamentalist Christianity anyone?

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hobitbob wrote:

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If there are organized groups educating children to advocate the violent overthrow of our government, it's worth more investigation.

Fundamentalist Christianity anyone?

No thank you. And I've never heard any fundamentalist Christians advocating that. If you have some quotes, please post them.

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I don't know how many times I've poste this reading list, but here it is again. It would be nice if some of the "Islam is eeeeeviiiil!" types actually read some of the works.
Non-specialist introductory texts
Introductions to Islam from a strictly religious studies perspective
The Robinson text is probably the best overall introduction for the lay reader.

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When Islam was born at the dawn of the Seventh Century, it was enlightened, forward thinking, and had great charisma. It was in its golden era in the time that Christianity was in its 'dark ages', Judaism was laying low, and paganism was disorganized and leaderless. I honestly believe that had it not split into factions and turned on itself, Islam would have conquered the world.

Do not think for a minute that the vicious, conscienceless murderers that are the terrorists are representative of the Islamic mainstream. They are not. They are evil and capable of doing unspeakable things. It is good and right to identify them, track them down, and stop them before they can do more of their worst to their own people and to the people of the world.

And yes, the American people should be less concerned about short term political correctness and encourage the government to do whatever it needs to do to defend our borders and put the best possible homeland security into place.

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Oh, here are some sites that are strictly the result of a google search for "christian fundamentalism overthrow government."
Democracy is not a good form of government
Similarities between Christian Fundamentalism and Nazism
the Radical Religious Right and the Breakdown of Democracy in the United States
And lastly, Pat Robertson's famous call for someone to "nuke" the State Department.

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Foxfyre wrote:

When Islam was born at the dawn of the Seventh Century, it was enlightened, forward thinking, and had great charisma.

To be fair, so did Christianity in that era.

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It was in its golden era in the time that Christianity was in its 'dark ages',

Common misconception. Read Judith Herrin, The Formation of Christendom, (Princeton, 1987).

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Judaism was laying low, and paganism was disorganized and leaderless.

"Paganism" is always "disorganized and leaderless, its one of its major advantages over any of the organized religions. Very Happy

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I honestly believe that had it not split into factions and turned on itself, Islam would have conquered the world.

That never stopped Christianity.

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Do not think for a minute that the vicious, conscienceless murderers that are the terrorists are representative of the Islamic mainstream. They are not. They are evil and capable of doing unspeakable things. It is good and right to identify them, track them down, and stop them before they can do more of their worst to their own people and to the people of the world.

A rare example of wisdom from one of the far right.

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And yes, the American people should be less concerned about short term political correctness and encourage the government to do whatever it needs to do to defend our borders and put the best possible homeland security into place.

Followed, of course, by a statement advocating totalitarianism. Confused

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Foxfyre wrote:

Do not think for a minute that the vicious, conscienceless murderers that are the terrorists are representative of the Islamic mainstream. They are not. They are evil and capable of doing unspeakable things. It is good and right to identify them, track them down, and stop them before they can do more of their worst to their own people and to the people of the world.

IMO the reason that islam is more dangerous, at least for the individual actor, is the fast track to paradise via martyrdom. Christianity on the other hand has "John 3:16" to provide the path to heaven. Both religions are piggy-backed onto Judaism with all of its violence.

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Actually, the martyr phernomenon in Christianity had to be "forcibly" restrainined in the 6th century by papal decree. To many people were essentially commiting suicide in order to become martyrs. Theoretically, at least in Orthodox Catholicism, anyone who is killed for their beliefs is by definition a martyr, though now unlikley to be declared a saint.
As far as Christianity encouraging violence, that lasted up through at least the 19th century, with the actions of some missionaries. Considering some of the rhetoric from teh far right, I would suspect it is still going strong.

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Tarantulas said

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blatham wrote:
"the fedral-style of simpleminded idiocy"

That's not very nice.

True, it wasn't nice. It was purposefully unnice. Though there are worse examples of Muslim hate literature available, this piece he's quoted (and the jihadwatch site linked) are of that species.

I read Fedral's posted piece, and checked out the linked sites. To a certainty, Fedral has not read either the piece I linked nor those which others above have linked. Fedral's range of reading materials is clearly pretty limited, as evidenced by post after post. Fedral, after tossing in one of these predictable bits, usually doesn't hang around to investigate different viewpoints or otherwise engage anything like a critical analysis of what he posts. Easy to stay simple-minded that way, and, axiomatically, what better route to unreflective idiocy.

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Islam, Jihad and Our Jugular Vein

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