1
   

Marine friend planning to go AWOL. Advice?

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 05:03 pm
Suzy, you miss the point of the obligation of a contract; its not about how long you agree with things, its about the contractual term. He may or may not fully have understood what was entailed when he signed his name on the line, or when he took his oath, but he did both.of his own free will, and if there was any misunderstanding on his part precisely what those actions entailed, that misunderstanding was first wholly due to his having failed to fully determine and consider what he was about to do at the time he did it (which itself technically renders him liable to prosecution for fraud, BTW), and finally, most pointedly, wholly irrelevant to the contract to which he bound himself. There are a variety of reassignment and discharge options available through accepted military channels. Those options are admittedly more burdensome than simply running away from one's obligations and violating one's own oath, but they are the more appropriate courses of action.

A fallacy in your reasoning re '"who's war is it" lies in the fact that regardless what one may think either of the action in Iraq or the current sitting executive, this is a nation of laws. The legally confirmed sitting executive, with the consent of Congress assembled, placed the nation into a state of war and committed its military or a portion thereof to the prosecution of that war, pursuant to the requirements and authorizations of The Constitution Of The United States and all other pertinent laws and regulations. It is America's war, whether you like the idea or not. That is the law, whether you like it or not. One may choose at one's own risk to ignore the restraint and requirement of law, and to unilaterally repudiate one's freely given oath. One should be unsurprised to discover the consequences of doing so might be inconvenient. Of course there is risk of death or injury in combat. Statistically, however, a member of the military deployed to Iraq is at less risk of death or injury due to hostile action than is a civilian American citizen undertaking interaction with motor vehicles here at home, peace or war. Your argument in that regard is wholly specious.

Oh, and while simply going AWOL rarely is a felony in and of itself, desertion in time of war most generally is deemed such, and would be, if so deemed, a Federal felony ... something not to be considered lightly.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 06:21 pm
Suzy - Since I know your approximate location, you might suggest he contact the "Peace Abby" in Sherborn. They just recently dealt with another Army National Guard soldier who was in a similar circumstance.

I don't know if they'll have all the answers but I'm pretty sure they dug into things heavily. They should be able to assist him in getting information on at least some of his options and the implications of each of them.
0 Replies
 
Jarlaxle
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:21 pm
That slimeball knew what he was joining when he signed up. He should either serve as he agreed to, or kill himself & save everyone lots of hassle.
0 Replies
 
pueo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:30 pm
Jarlaxle wrote:
That slimeball knew what he was joining when he signed up. He should either serve as he agreed to, or kill himself & save everyone lots of hassle.


as someone who served in the usmc this topic annoys me more than what i have posted. regardless of my personal annoyance of the marine in question, i don't advocate death or suicide, jail time is up to the legal system. now go pick up some marbles, i believe you've lost a few.
0 Replies
 
Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:37 pm
suzy,
Please be VERY careful in your dealings with this situation. What your friend is considering is a crime. You having prior knowledge and assisting in the commision of that crime makes you and anyone assisting your friend an accessory to that crime. Please watch yourself.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:49 pm
Fedral is correct. Be very careful.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 07:49 pm
There's no maybe about it. After 30 days, the AWOL is dropped as a deserter. Canada may have been sympathetic to draft evaders in the '70s, but draft evaders never took an oath of enlistment.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 09:19 pm
Well, I don't plan to physically assist him if he does go through with it, but I would like to give him some resources, and maybe he can find a better way. Fishin, of course! The Peace Abbey. That's even closer than the Friends, the closest of which is in Cambridge, to my knowledge.
I don't even know for sure if I'll see this guy again before he's supposed to report back, but I do know how to reach him.
I still feel like people who enlist before 21 should have an opt-out in the first 18 months. They're just kids and really don't know what they're getting into.
War sucks. Especially when it isn't imperative. If he were my son I'd be so flipping out right now. As it is, he has been one of my son's best friends for over a decade, and I love the kid. He knows right from wrong and he understands his duty, yet he's willing to risk it all because he's scared and he hates being over there. I can't tell him to suck it up.
I can't tell him to follow his conscience. I want to be able to give him something.
I will contact the quakers and the Abbey, but what are those military options mentioned by some of you? Any specifics?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 09:41 pm
I wasn't really all that thrilled about, or comfortable with, some of the places the military put me. I was particularly unfond of the situations which culminated in my getting wounded, and those in which close freinds were wounded or killed. And anyone in a warzone who isn't scared is psychotic. Thats what "suck it up" and "grow up" are all about.

If you really want to help the kid, suzy, help him to find and obtain advice and counselling - both pro and con. A second uninformed, illconsidered, immature decision won't better his situation one bit.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 05:57 am
Whatever he does will influence the rest of his life. At his age, I'm not surprised that all he can think of is going AWOL. This is a bad idea.

Checking out options before acting....much better.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 08:21 am
I have had friends who were conscientious objectors and refused to go to war. Those drafted during Vietnam served out their time working in hospitals and other noncombat efforts. I have great respect for these people.

I also have had loved ones serving in every USA war/conflict/military action/humanitarian effort since World War I. And I have friends and family serving or who have served in Iraq. All have served and/or are serving proudly and I am so proud of them.

Some were drafted and some enlisted to join the effort in whatever war we were in at the time.

Some went into the National Guard or signed up to be career soldiers, sailors, airmen or whatever in peacetime, but every last one knew there was the possibility they could be required to go to war.

My heart goes out to Suzy's friend who is afraid or discouraged or just tired of soldiering. But he needs to stay the course and finish is tour of duty and then get out. People of principle do what they need to do.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:12 am
Tell him to either be insubordinate and let them throw him in the clink (for less time than deserting), shoot himself (thus getting a purple heart and a discharge), or to be a man and go and fulfill his duties.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:25 am
Actually he would have to shoot himself three times for three purple hearts before that would get him out. Smile
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:25 am
McGentrix wrote:
Tell him to either be insubordinate and let them throw him in the clink (for less time than deserting), shoot himself (thus getting a purple heart and a discharge), or to be a man and go and fulfill his duties.


Tell your friend he will be a man no matter what he does......all John Wayne wanna be comments aside.....

Is his family rich? He could become the GOP Presidential nominee eventually.......

He should simply make it clear that he will accept no more combat duty if he's unable to anymore and then take those consequences, but that's better than going AWOL and giving people like our buddy here the satisfaction of commenting on something they know nothing about..
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 09:25 am
McGentrix wrote:
Tell him to either be insubordinate and let them throw him in the clink (for less time than deserting), shoot himself (thus getting a purple heart and a discharge), or to be a man and go and fulfill his duties.


Tell your friend he will be a man no matter what he does......all John Wayne wanna be comments aside.....

Is his family rich? He could become the GOP Presidential nominee eventually.......

He should simply make it clear that he will accept no more combat duty if he's unable to anymore and then take those consequences, but that's better than going AWOL and giving people like our buddy here the satisfaction of commenting on something they know nothing about..
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 11:25 am
Who will storm the beaches of Normandy?

It was a cool Saturday afternoon in the middle of August when I decided to ride into town to pick up something to read. It was my first visit to Brunswick, Maine and I had a few hours to kill before attending a wedding at Bowdoin College.

Just as I was pulling into a parking space on Main Street, I heard a man in a Volkswagen blow his horn at a Volvo that was in front of him. The man in the Volvo continued to back up until he bumped into the Volkswagen. The drivers of both cars were trying to get into the same parking space.

By the time I got out of my car, the man in the Volkswagen had jumped out of his car and was beating furiously on the driver's side window of the Volvo. After calling the man a "dumb**s," he asked him whether he realized that he was "too f***ing old to be driving." He beat on the window again, demanding that the man get out of his car. A few seconds later, he realized that people were watching and he quietly slipped back into his Volkswagen. Moments later he found another parking space.

I walked over to the space where the man in the Volkswagen had parked and looked at his bumper. When he got out I said, "It looks like there's no damage to your bumper after all." He was one of those body-builder types who appeared to be in his early thirties. While obviously embarrassed, he still pretended to be victimized.

As I walked off towards the bookstore near the Bowdoin campus, I saw the man in the Volvo get out of his car. He had to lean against the door while he reached in the back seat to get his walking cane. He must have been eighty years old. Disgusted by the whole scene, I just shook my head and walked away.

After I picked up a magazine at the bookstore, I walked into a deli on Main Street to order some lunch. After I was finished eating, I was heading out the door when I noticed that the old man was sitting at a table for two in a corner by himself. I took a moment to go over to him and apologize for the behavior of the man in the Volkswagen. I told him that a man his age should never be treated so disrespectfully. The man just smiled and thanked me.

Before I walked away, I noticed that he had an embroidered hat sitting on the table in front of him. When I saw the writing on the hat, I realized that the man was a veteran of World War II. I had been feeling pretty proud of myself for trying to comfort him. But then it occurred to me that I should thank him for risking his life so that my generation could be free. Without him we might all be speaking German. Not to mention driving Volkswagens.

I was reminded of that incident last week when I was discussing the war in Iraq with my friend, Barry Whitehead. We both agreed that this nation would be in serious trouble if we had to fight another war like World War II today. That brave generation of men who stormed the beaches of Normandy has been replaced by a generation of metrosexuals trying to get in touch with their feminine side. Even the body builders become emotionally unraveled when they think that someone might have scratched their plastic bumper.

I am reminded of the spinelessness of my generation almost every day. With every column that I write and every speech that I give, people react by telling me that I should be careful lest I lose my job or be labeled by vindictive liberals.

Every time I hear such admonitions, I think about my grandfather who spent his 19th birthday getting trench foot in a foxhole in France in World War I. When he was finally able to crawl out, he was hit with a piece of shrapnel from a German hand grenade, which became permanently lodged in his spine. I can still see him in his later years walking across the room in a walker as a result of that injury. Come to think of it, he looked a lot like the man I saw getting out of that Volvo.

My parents took me to see my grandfather many times when I was a child. I got to hear the same war stories on every visit, but they never got old. We all need to take the time to hear these stories from our aging war heroes before they are gone for good.

The next time I see a World War II veteran sitting alone at a table for two, I hope I remember to thank him for his courage and sacrifice. Our injured veterans shouldn't be driving around town by themselves. Nor should they be eating alone on a beautiful summer day.

They should be telling us about the battles that they won. They should be reminding us of all we have to lose.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 01:38 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Who will storm the beaches of Normandy?

It was a cool Saturday afternoon in the middle of August when I decided to ride into town to pick up something to read. It was my first visit to Brunswick, Maine and I had a few hours to kill before attending a wedding at Bowdoin College.

Just as I was pulling into a parking space on Main Street, I heard a man in a Volkswagen blow his horn at a Volvo that was in front of him. The man in the Volvo continued to back up until he bumped into the Volkswagen. The drivers of both cars were trying to get into the same parking space.

By the time I got out of my car, the man in the Volkswagen had jumped out of his car and was beating furiously on the driver's side window of the Volvo. After calling the man a "dumb**s," he asked him whether he realized that he was "too f***ing old to be driving." He beat on the window again, demanding that the man get out of his car. A few seconds later, he realized that people were watching and he quietly slipped back into his Volkswagen. Moments later he found another parking space.

I walked over to the space where the man in the Volkswagen had parked and looked at his bumper. When he got out I said, "It looks like there's no damage to your bumper after all." He was one of those body-builder types who appeared to be in his early thirties. While obviously embarrassed, he still pretended to be victimized.

As I walked off towards the bookstore near the Bowdoin campus, I saw the man in the Volvo get out of his car. He had to lean against the door while he reached in the back seat to get his walking cane. He must have been eighty years old. Disgusted by the whole scene, I just shook my head and walked away.

After I picked up a magazine at the bookstore, I walked into a deli on Main Street to order some lunch. After I was finished eating, I was heading out the door when I noticed that the old man was sitting at a table for two in a corner by himself. I took a moment to go over to him and apologize for the behavior of the man in the Volkswagen. I told him that a man his age should never be treated so disrespectfully. The man just smiled and thanked me.

Before I walked away, I noticed that he had an embroidered hat sitting on the table in front of him. When I saw the writing on the hat, I realized that the man was a veteran of World War II. I had been feeling pretty proud of myself for trying to comfort him. But then it occurred to me that I should thank him for risking his life so that my generation could be free. Without him we might all be speaking German. Not to mention driving Volkswagens.

I was reminded of that incident last week when I was discussing the war in Iraq with my friend, Barry Whitehead. We both agreed that this nation would be in serious trouble if we had to fight another war like World War II today. That brave generation of men who stormed the beaches of Normandy has been replaced by a generation of metrosexuals trying to get in touch with their feminine side. Even the body builders become emotionally unraveled when they think that someone might have scratched their plastic bumper.

I am reminded of the spinelessness of my generation almost every day. With every column that I write and every speech that I give, people react by telling me that I should be careful lest I lose my job or be labeled by vindictive liberals.

Every time I hear such admonitions, I think about my grandfather who spent his 19th birthday getting trench foot in a foxhole in France in World War I. When he was finally able to crawl out, he was hit with a piece of shrapnel from a German hand grenade, which became permanently lodged in his spine. I can still see him in his later years walking across the room in a walker as a result of that injury. Come to think of it, he looked a lot like the man I saw getting out of that Volvo.

My parents took me to see my grandfather many times when I was a child. I got to hear the same war stories on every visit, but they never got old. We all need to take the time to hear these stories from our aging war heroes before they are gone for good.

The next time I see a World War II veteran sitting alone at a table for two, I hope I remember to thank him for his courage and sacrifice. Our injured veterans shouldn't be driving around town by themselves. Nor should they be eating alone on a beautiful summer day.

They should be telling us about the battles that they won. They should be reminding us of all we have to lose.


What in God's name is your point?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 01:42 pm
My point is that this young man who isdeciding to go AWOL or not should remember why he bacame a Marine. He didn't join the Air Force, or the reserves or the Coast Guard. He joined the MARINES. And, he made it. Now that he is being asked to do his duty, he should remember what being a Marine means. He should think of those that have served before him and why they did it.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 01:48 pm
McGentrix wrote:
My point is that this young man who isdeciding to go AWOL or not should remember why he bacame a Marine. He didn't join the Air Force, or the reserves or the Coast Guard. He joined the MARINES. And, he made it. Now that he is being asked to do his duty, he should remember what being a Marine means. He should think of those that have served before him and why they did it.


Well I'm sure he'll be willing to listen to your advice and give it full thoughtful consideration now that you've basically called him a gutless pussy there Dale Carnegie. Rolling Eyes

You have no more idea than I do what he's feeling, what kind of pressure he's under or what drives his decisions because like it or not, just like me, you've never served in the armed forces!!!!

And btw just because your daddy and granddaddy proudly served, you have no authority to speak as though you know anything about it because you haven't. My dad was a Marine and I don't know a damn thing about what it's like to be in combat.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 01:56 pm
I'm certain that if he agreed with what we are fighting for in Iraq, he would have no problem completing his duty McG. I know that if we had another world war II, I would sign up.

Normandy was a righteous cause. It's questionable how righteous a war this is.

If you feel differently, you're welcome to sign up for it McGentrix.

Not that I completely disagree with it persay. I just never felt strongly that it was something worth dying for. And I'm certain that if Bush had managed it better and showed some patience in getting into it, not as many Americans would have had to die for it.
0 Replies
 
 

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