Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

@Herald,

Quote:

Yes, I am also interested how will you explain this to S.

You should have stopped there Herald. Your other stuff allowed fm to escape and could have been asked later. And it's only fund scoffing anyway.

1 Reply

@spendius,

fm took your post as another excuse to demonstrate what a Big Cheese he is. That's his abiding preoccupation.

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@spendius,

I don't have to demonstrate a damn thing, Herald is gonna tell us all about Bio mechanical quantum supercomputers and what they can do to organic and inorganic matter.
I tremble in anticipation.

The fact that Herald often makes no sense at all is probably why you and he are asshole buds.

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@farmerman,

There has been far more interchange between you and H than between H and myself.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I have several radiation health physicists that work under contract for me on various projects. I can ask one of them and I hope they don't charge me for it.

There you go. And the other day you had paleoics and whatnot on your staff.

H asked you did you know. Why not just say no? By the time you have asked your expert minions we will all have forgotten the question and just remember your Big Cheesiness. You have experts under your control.

You are working to make energy cheaper, and proud of it, and that's the biggest danger the environment faces according to many experts. Not banking experts of course.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

... I tremble in anticipation.

This is wonderful news ... & I start thinking that S. was right about the scoffing, but the truth of the matter is that you don't have even the vaguest idea of what the human mind/conscience is, and what is the whole thing all about ... and what is the difference between living matter and 'polymers'. With or without scoffing you cannot present anything that is plausible as an explanation ... where the keywords are 'with or without'.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Im not a big source of knowledge of the human mind, that's tru. But Im sure there is enough stuff on the web.
As far as polymers, I used to be a chemist so Im quite familiar with polymers and I ws the one who menationed the concept of replicating polymers that are already old news in science.

I get a kick out of your habit of debate. When I answer one of your comments, you quickly change the subjects but never seem to want to discuss anything to a satisfactory completion. Are you merely a provocateur who likes to begin arguments but hasn't the knowledge base to complete em?

As far as spendi, Hes just a troll who has no iea about anything in science but likes to submit words from his favorite bodice ripper novels. Hes been trying to blusff us for 10 years so excuse me if I don't wince. If you wish to argue something, Im here for you, just try to make a point and we can move on.

SO today you are trying to establish that I don't know anything about the human mind, so tipulted, now whats the follow on point?

May I suggest you read A KnollsLife on a Young Planet. Its popularly written and is a powerful argument for the beginning of life on the planet as a long process of interactions of identical chemicals

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

When I answer one of your comments, you quickly change the subjects

Where do you see an answer. If you think that - 'Im not a big source of knowledge of the human mind, that's tru. But Im sure there is enough stuff on the web.' - is some kind of an answer ... think again.

further wrote:

As far as polymers, I used to be a chemist so Im quite familiar with polymers

I am not asking this. I asked you whether you make a difference between polymers (polypropylene for example) and organic matter (brain tissue for example), and would you share your 'answering to this question'.

further wrote:

... and I ws the one who menationed the concept of replicating polymers that are already old news in science.

FM, you are not answering to any questions ... you are simply exercising brain chewing gum with the perspective to write a Ph.D. thesis some day ... perhaps in metaphysics or in any other branch of philosophy.
You see, I start answering your questions much better for I have had great teachers (in your face for example).

further wrote:

Are you merely a provocateur who likes to begin arguments but hasn't the knowledge base to complete em?

If you are so curious to know knowledge base is nothing without the inference engine.
BTW it is not only me changing the themes like handkerchiefs.
Take a look for example at this posting - you start with complaining that you provide comprehensive answers and nobody is appraising this, then you go through charges for deliberate changing of the theme of the discussion ... and end up with a recommendation for book reading.
Don't you think that if I start complying with your advises the first possible date to continue this thread will be after the New Year ... when I finish with the book reading?!

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

You are working to make energy cheaper, and proud of it, and that's the biggest danger the environment faces according to many experts.

I notice you didn't get a kick out of that fm.

Are you not up for a response? Is it a bit too near the truth?

Just some very cliched and self-flattering insults pushed to the front. Completely fatuous ones too.

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@Herald,

You are , once again demonstrating ignorance . cell walls are mostly S-layer or glycoprotein POLYMERIC chains. A question, have you even had high school biology yet? If you have, you must have been asleep when the teacher discussed the CELL WALL of ARCHEA.

CLICK BELOW
CELL WALL POLYMERIZATION FOR HS BIOLOGY

Since this discussion IS ABOUT evolution, I think that you should be walking before we start running. ARchean bacteria have always been classed as having a polymeric cell wall based on S-layers. (COOH-NH_COOH_NH (ad nauseum).
I cant make it any simpler .

Quote:

FM, you are not answering to any questions ... you are simply exercising brain chewing gum with the perspective to write a Ph.D. thesis

Im waay past you. And its a dissertation .

I noticed something that I was perhaps amiss in first recognizing. I take it that English is not your first language. If that is so, maybe Im taking too much for granted and I need to slow down a bit and stop assuming.

Lets stick with polymers. The polymer structure of S chains is composed of several repeating chemical strands (In layers) that have defined the cell wall an are the primary research focus of how life began in pools of aliphatics and Ammonia compounds. (forming proto "fatty acids" glycerols and " peptides.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

Quote:

There you go. And the other day you had paleoics and whatnot on your staff.

I have two "paleoics"(sic) ( I assume you meant paleontologists and not paleoichnologists). The one is my partner an the other is a senior staff. I said CLEARLY , that I don't have any radiation Health Physicists ON STAFF. I hire outside consultants via contract.

Try to keep up if you only wish to criticize.

Hows your cherry picking of D&M coming? find any more Greta van Sustern similes?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Hows your cherry picking of D&M coming? find any more Greta van Sustern similes?

I don't cherry pick D&M. I've read it twice and go back to parts of it from time to time. It's a great book. I daresay it's a great book to those who read it once so they could say they had read it and impress every little tweeter around by saying what a great book it is. Speed readers--that sort of dude.

There's a lot to consider in it. It's a great book.

I'm going for a bath. I've a question for you when I get back.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

It's a great book

At lest we agree on one thing. I always like a complete biography that is as well written and entertaining as is this. Unlike Burlinghames' "LINCOLN- a life". Burlinghame seems to hve written his two part set as a primary resource about Lincoln and that's all his reason for writing.

Desmond and Moore have received many accolades and book prizes for this work. Desmonds earlier work, like "The Hot Blooded Dinosaurs" were some page turners too. (Im easy to entertain)

Ive a meeting. Ill return in several hours.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I'll save it for then then.

I wouldn't be interested in hot blooded dinosaurs though. It's people that interest me.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

RE: ... the polymeric chains

You were not talking about polymeric chains when you said that the Big Bang has created (created through evolution?!) the polymers (out of the Higgs boson, or whatever).
Some are missing biology calsses, others are missing the math ... of the grammer school - that's life.
Do you make any difference in the complexity of a structure (and in the properties and functionality) of the synthetic polymers used in the chemical industry and the organic polymers of the living matter you are talking about.
Can you synthesise an organic polymer fron ground zero (completely from inorganic matter, without even using readily available DNA from anything else) ... and set it in operation ... to perform metobolic assignments, for example.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

You were not talking about polymeric chains when you said that the Big Bang has created (created through evolution?!) the polymers (out of the Higgs boson, or whatever).

Somehwere I think you've confused lightning and lightning bugs. I have no idea what you even said, it makes absolutely no sense.

Quote:

Some are missing biology calsses, others are missing the math ... of the grammer school - that's life

I wasnt talking about "some". I was talking about YOU. Is this an admission that you never listened in biology class?

polymer is a polymer, in biopolymers which are primarily cell walls and connective tissues and other structures, you were poo pooing the fact that science can analyze and determine the structures . These are central in research into reproducing the living state.

Quote:

Can you synthesise an organic polymer fron ground zero (completely from inorganic matter, without even using readily available DNA from anything else) ... and set it in operation ... to perform metobolic assignments, for example.

Of course not, Im not involved in all that area of work. Why do you ask "ME" whether I can do something? The debate isn't limited to us as individuals its about life and evolution.
As far as those that do this research, they are working with various classes of organics and attempting to assemble synthetic cells. I don't believe they are using DNA as a driver, that would render the assembly meaningless .
Remember, the earth had a BILLION years or more to do all this "creation of the first cell". Weve only been at it since the late 1950's.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

These are central in research into reproducing the living state.

Not to me. The structures of a modern scientific society are central. I find it difficult to imagine that anybody working in the field has any faith in their ability to produce life.

It is a money pump operation by people who are essentially redundant or being treated in the community. A lucrative talking shop.

Now--the question I wanted to ask you is this--

On page 458 of D&M (the 8th page of Chapter 31, What Would a Chimpanzee Say?), there is this--on the mode of creation--

Quote:

The subject was even turning up in addresses to the Geological Society; quietly, perhaps, but it was there. Liberal Presidents were calling for unbiased attitudes towards the origin of new life: 'it is a speculation worthy of the exercise of the highest intelligence,' one had said earlier in 1857--but 'let us avoid the fatal error of connecting the results of scientific enquiry with the articles of religious belief.' (note 19).

In the notes the speaker is identified as Portlock who is there further quoted as saying--" If Creation was 'an act imposing laws upon nature, and calling into existence organisms subject to the controlling and modifying actions of physical circumstances, why should not an alteration in these circumstances produce the same change in a created being'? "

The question I would like you to answer is what did Portlock mean by "fatal error".?

There are two possibilities it seems to me.

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@spendius,

btw--I'm excluding loose talk and careless speech-writing.

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@spendius,

As you saw, the topic o creation ws more and more being looked on as reasonable areas of inquiry. I suppose the "Fatal error' was JE Portlock's own view. (He was a Scottish general and a geologist who would speak occasionally on several subjects of the day to the geological society .

Quote:

Creation was 'an act imposing laws upon nature, and calling into existence organisms subject to the controlling and modifying actions of physical circumstances, why should not an alteration in these circumstances produce the same change in a created being'? "

I like that, sums it up nicely , except Id start with the concept that "Nature imposes its laws upon creation"

I know that this chapter had some thought s about Darwins timidity and paranoia about having his theory be extended to include "creation" . He was especially nutty about being confused with Robert Chambers work The Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation, which was published in 1844 and, by superceding Darwin, had caused many sides to be takien up on this issue of "creation". Darwin wanted none of it and didn't want to be even mentioned with Chambers in the same breath. The discussions about Asa Gray in the previous pages are examples of Darwin getting "Sucked into' creation PLUS evolution.

Darwin wanted a limit to the significance of his theory. Also, he NEVER gave Chambers (or anyone else, ANY credit in his first edition. He got blasted by others who accused Darwin of plagiarism by omitting the many of those who went on befoe. SO, in subsequent editions, Darwin began to Credit everyone (Including Aristotle who, in reality was of a total opposite view). By the time the 6th edition was in print, Darwin had given "catch up credit" to no less than 36 pevious workers in evolution. (Morse Peckhams 1959 Variorum of the Origin of Species

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I suppose the "Fatal error' was JE Portlock's own view.

I asked you what you thought he meant. He comes over in D&M as a President of the Geological Society.

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