32
   

Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 02:59 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
The odds of you keeping me on ignore? Zero. (As I have pointed out previously. Science is a wonderful thing because it can make predictions that turn out to be correct.)
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 03:01 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Could you point out my error in statistics?
When rolling a die is the likelihood of there being an outcome 1 in 1?
If not, then give us your math that disproves my statement.


Failure on your part to answer can be taken as I am correct and you can't dispute it in any fashion.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 08:47 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
So...You're giving 25% credibility to something that you simultaneously claim is false. Interesting.
     What is so interesting: 1) 25% credibility is actually False


I'm glad you've finally seen the light and reversed your position on this. Now how about admitting you were equally wrong about the 45% and the 30%?

Quote:
2) as a matter of fact this hypotheses really cannot be excluded 100% ... with the present-day (lack of) knowledge. I don't see anything so interesting here. What is so interesting to you?


That is about as concise a god-of-the-gaps fallacy as can be made.

What can be excluded 100% is the claim that your garbled, illogical and fallacious hypothesis has any empirical support or that it makes any testable predictions or that it explains a single observed phenomenon is this vast universe. Not a single one.

Hence:

4:0

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 09:42 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-science-is-so-hard-to-believe/2015/02/12/2ff8f064-b0a0-11e4-886b-c22184f27c35_story.html

Why science is so hard to believe

...
Science doubt has become a pop-culture meme.
...
In this bewildering world we have to decide what to believe and how to act on that. In principle, that’s what science is for. “Science is not a body of facts,” says geophysicist Marcia McNutt, who once headed the U.S. Geological Survey and is now editor of Science, the prestigious journal. “Science is a method for deciding whether what we choose to believe has a basis in the laws of nature or not.”

The scientific method leads us to truths that are less than self-evident, often mind-blowing and sometimes hard to swallow. In the early 17th century, when Galileo claimed that the Earth spins on its axis and orbits the sun, he wasn’t just rejecting church doctrine. He was asking people to believe something that defied common sense — because it sure looks like the sun’s going around the Earth, and you can’t feel the Earth spinning. Galileo was put on trial and forced to recant. Two centuries later, Charles Darwin escaped that fate. But his idea that all life on Earth evolved from a primordial ancestor and that we humans are distant cousins of apes, whales and even deep-sea mollusks is still a big ask for a lot of people.
...
Even for scientists, the scientific method is a hard discipline. They, too, are vulnerable to confirmation bias — the tendency to look for and see only evidence that confirms what they already believe. But unlike the rest of us, they submit their ideas to formal peer review before publishing them. Once the results are published, if they’re important enough, other scientists will try to reproduce them — and, being congenitally skeptical and competitive, will be very happy to announce that they don’t hold up. Scientific results are always provisional, susceptible to being overturned by some future experiment or observation. Scientists rarely proclaim an absolute truth or an absolute certainty. Uncertainty is inevitable at the frontiers of knowledge.
...
Science appeals to our rational brain, but our beliefs are motivated largely by emotion, and the biggest motivation is remaining tight with our peers. “We’re all in high school. We’ve never left high school,” says Marcia McNutt. “People still have a need to fit in, and that need to fit in is so strong that local values and local opinions are always trumping science. And they will continue to trump science, especially when there is no clear downside to ignoring science.”
...
Maybe — except that evolution is real. Biology is incomprehensible without it. There aren’t really two sides to all these issues. Climate change is happening. Vaccines save lives. Being right does matter — and the science tribe has a long track record of getting things right in the end. Modern society is built on things it got right.

Doubting science also has consequences, as seen in recent weeks with the measles outbreak that began in California.
...
It’s their very detachment, what you might call the cold-bloodedness of science, that makes science the killer app. It’s the way science tells us the truth rather than what we’d like the truth to be. Scientists can be as dogmatic as anyone else — but their dogma is always wilting in the hot glare of new research. In science it’s not a sin to change your mind when the evidence demands it. For some people, the tribe is more important than the truth; for the best scientists, the truth is more important than the tribe.[/b]
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 09:48 pm
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/hapkido1996/10422328_10153056719651605_1265596444158272272_n_zps9e594550.jpg
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:37 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Robust scientific argument
     If your 'scientific argument' is that robust as you are trying to present it, it would pass all the verification & validation tests ... without any problem. The robust arguments can pass everything - they can even be used to find flaws and defects in the verification and validation system. So, you claim that you have 'Robust, scientific argument' - why don't you prove that?
     1. Prove that it is robust (good performance for data drawn from a wide range of probability distributions, especially for distributions that are not normal). You don't have even the function of probabilistic distribution for the stochastics that you present as robust.
     2. Then you will have to prove that it is 'scientific' - it is a set of techniques for investigating existing phenomena, acquiring new knowledge for correcting and integrating it with the existing knowledge. Where are your 'existing phenomena' - all of the 'phenomena' in relation to the Big Bang 'theory' are either impossible to exist in the physical world (impossible) or cannot exist even as logical constructs (implausible) - starting from the Infinite Temperature and ending up with the approximation of Infinity with 'ten trillion trillions'. Where is the integration with the existing knowledge: perhaps it is integrating with the definition of Temperature from the Quantum Mechanics, or maybe with the Laws for Conservation of Energy from the classical physics, or perhaps it is amending the understanding of the math logic for the Effect of the Contradictions on the formal model, or what?
     3. In the end you will have to prove that it is an 'argument' - you will have to prove that 'all of a sudden', 'out of nowhere', 'out of nothing' and 'by reason unknown' are authentic arguments - by Def.: 'series of statements used to present reasonable ground to assign believe and to accept a conclusion'.
     Perhaps you should have done all that before talking about any 'robust scientific arguments'.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:43 pm
@Herald,
More than sufficient evidence has been presented in this thread that shows the robustness of the Standard Model. Show us how robust your "personal 45%" crap is. You've got nothing but the god-of-the-gaps fallacy.


4:0
Herald
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:48 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
RE: The fake score of 4:0
     If you are self-assessing you cannot manipulate my part of the score - all that you can do is to manipulate your part of the score.
     So, the score is obviously: 4:11
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:50 pm
@Herald,
According to you, the Standard Model explains 4% of the observable universe. Your "personal 45% word salad-of-the-gaps" explains nothing. Unless, of course, you've decided to produce some experimental and observational evidence for it. Hence:

4:0
Herald
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:52 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
According to you, the Standard Model explains 4% of the observable universe.
     4% of whatever is absolute zero - this is 0.04 ... no matter how you may misinterpret it.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 11:00 pm
http://www.fysik.su.se/~milstead/teaching/linkoping/linkoping.pdf

Quote:
Experimental Tests of the Standard
Model

• What is the Standard Model ?
• How do we test it ?
• Why do we think its incomplete ?
• What are the next steps ?Goal: a theory which describes all of the fundamental constituents of nature and their
interactions with the minimum of assumptions and free parameters. Ultimately describe
all interactions over small distance scales and cosmological observations.
The Standard Model is our best attempt at this - assess how successfult in this lecture.
6 quarks, 6 leptons, 3 exchange bosons
+ antiparticles.
Two independent forces (electroweak and QCD).
19 free parameters: particle masses, mixing angles,
CP-violating term, couplings....
Consistent method of introducing interactions via
so-called gauge invariance and Feynam diagram
formalism.
The Standard Model assumes massless neutrinos
but this is easily fixed.
Barring neutrino oscillations, the Standard Model has never failed a single experimental test.
There is still one test left to pass - finding the Higgs boson.


Oh, so how did that last bit go?

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2015/01/cms-pins-down-higgs-first-run-data

Quote:
CMS pins down Higgs with first run data
André David
Posted by Cian O'Luanaigh on 27 Jan 2015. Last updated 27 Jan 2015, 16.43.
Voir en français

New results from the CMS collaboration are pinning down the properties of the Higgs boson (Image: Maximilien Brice/CERN)
With the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) preparing to restart in a few months, data from its first run has already been bearing fruit.
A recent publication by the CMS collaboration brings together the broadest set of results to date about the properties of the Higgs boson. The paper, submitted to The European Physical Journal C (and available at arXiv:1412.8662 (link is external)) showcases what CMS physicists have learnt about the particle using data taken between 2011 and 2012 Together with another paper on the spin and parity of the boson, [arXiv:1411.3441 (link is external)] the results draw a picture of a particle that – for the moment – cannot be distinguished from the Standard Model predictions for the Higgs boson.
The Standard Model of particle physics is a theoretical framework that explains how the basic building blocks of matter interact, governed by four fundamental forces. Developed in the early 1970s, it has successfully explained almost all experimental results and precisely predicted a wide variety of phenomena – including the mass of the Higgs boson.
The CMS experiment recently combined measurements from different decays of the Higgs to extract the most precise measurement of its mass to date: 125.02±0.30 GeV, with a relative uncertainty of 0.2%. This uncertainty can be split into a systematic component (±0.15 GeV) and a statistical component (±0.26 GeV), which provides excellent prospects for Run 2 to yield an even more precise mass measurement, as more data will reduce the statistical component.
The Higgs boson is the final piece of the Standard Model – when it was discovered by the CMS and ATLAS experiments in 2012, it was the last particle predicted by the Model to be verified experimentally. But with all parameters now experimentally constrained, physicists can use the Model to make even more specific predictions. For example, having measured the mass of the Higgs boson, the Standard Model makes unambiguous predictions as to what the Higgs boson's other properties should be. Some, such as the boson's spin (zero), parity (positive), and electric charge (neutral) stem directly from the symmetries of the Standard Model. But others, such as the strength with which the Higgs boson interacts (or couples) with other Standard Model particles are harder to check.
The Higgs boson decays to many different particles, including photons, Z bosons, W bosons, tau leptons, b quarks and muons. Checking how the Higgs decays into these particles, and with what probabilities, will allow physicists to complete the picture and gain a better understanding of the Higgs.
Finding no significant deviations with the Standard Model has set the bar high for the LHC's Run 2. Theorists and experimentalists will continue working together to find a small wrinkle in the so far smooth Higgs boson picture. That small wrinkle that may point the way out of the Standard Model oasis, across the desert, and the as-yet unknown physics beyond. It's going to be an exciting Run 2.


Yer butt's sucking buttermilk, Herod. You're just in too much denial to wipe your ass. Laughing
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 11:01 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
According to you, the Standard Model explains 4% of the observable universe.
     4% of whatever is absolute zero - this is 0.04 ... no matter how you may misinterpret it.


Math is fun, Herod! Give it a quick look: http://www.mathsisfun.com/percentage.html
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:09 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Math is fun, Herod! Give it a quick look


Yeah, But it won't help, mate!!!!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 01:21 am
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/failure-real-science-good-and-different-phony-controversies#

Quote:
Failure In Real Science Is Good – And Different From Phony Controversies

February 10, 2015 | by Chad Orzel


Last March, the BICEP2 collaboration announced that they had used a microwave telescope at the South Pole to detect primordial gravitational waves. These tiny ripples in spacetime would be the first proof of the theory known as “inflation,” an astonishingly rapid expansion of the universe in the instants after the Big Bang.
...
Last week, a new paper was released backtracking on last March’s announcement. The BICEP2 team joined with rivals on the European Space Agency’s Planck experiment, and found that their results were contaminated by dust. The signal is not large enough to constitute proof of inflation, so cosmology returns to its prior uncertain state. Rather than revolutionizing our understanding, the BICEP2 result is just the latest in a long line of highly public flops.
...
BICEP2 shows how science is properly done, and makes it easier, not harder, to detect the pseudo-science of attempts to discredit science for political gain.

We tend to think of science as a collection of esoteric information, but science is best understood as a process for figuring out the workings of the universe. Scientists look at the world, think of models to explain their observations, test those models with further observations and experiment, and tell each other the results. This process is familiar and universal, turning up in everything from hidden-object books to sports. More importantly, we can recognize the process even in cases where we don’t understand all the technical details, and use that to distinguish real science from phony controversies.

Real scientific controversies are widespread and mainstream. The BICEP2 results were publicly challenged within weeks...most complaints came from scientists associated with BICEP2’s competitors and theorists who prefer alternatives to inflation—they were active and respected members of the community.

Phony controversies, on the other hand, can usually be traced to a handful of opponents, often outside their fields of expertise.
...
Real scientific controversies play out in the scientific literature, through papers drawing on many other sources of data.
...
Phony controversies tend to play out in the media, through press releases, stump speeches, and polemical writing reshared via social media.
...
And most importantly, real scientific controversies are self-correcting. The final nail in the gravitational-wave coffin was a joint paper by both BICEP2 and Planck, combining their data to settle the question. The end result is professionally embarrassing for scientists involved in the original announcement, but they were at the forefront of the effort to resolve the controversy because for real science reputation is less important than the truth.
...
Phony controversies, on the other hand, are endless, with proponents clinging stubbornly to the same positions year after year. Even as their sources are discredited, their conclusions remain unchanged, because phony science is less interested in truth than in selling a conclusion.
...
By providing a clear example of real science done the right way, the controversy over BICEP2 exposes politically motivated phony controversies as hollow frauds.


Nice ring to it, I think. "Herod the Hollow Fraud."
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 04:06 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Nice ring to it, I think. "Herod the Hollow Fraud."


And Hoera! Another Ad Hominem because this one is running out of arguments!!!



What a joke the science thing is! unbelievable!!!
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 08:19 am
@Quehoniaomath,
I see you haven't been able to point out any error in my statistics yet. I guess that would mean you can't find an error and are ignoring the fact that your claim was wrong.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 01:16 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
   • What is the Standard Model ?
   • How do we test it ?
   • Why do we think its incomplete ?
   • What are the next steps ?
     There is however one more question that is not mentioned here - and it is the mission critical one: Why is the 'theory' of the Big Bang unbreakable?
     The cryptographic key of the answer is implicitly set up into its absolute stochastics ... as a theory.
     The Big Bang 'theory' is a brilliant stochastics - it is absolutely random as a theory, and that is why it is unbreakable.
     The Proof:
     With every day and in any way it is using more and more different assumptions, which of which more exotic, hence there is no way for the 'Denier' to get knowing exactly which set of assumptions has been chosen for the day concerned.
     Theoretically, for any set of Claims of the Big Bang 'theory' there exists a set of assumptions that might always be presented as a plausible interpretation of the things.
     From where and on the grounds whereof it becomes more than evident that the Big Bang 'theory' is not pseudorandom, but is rather a genuine random numbers generator ... and in the capacity of being so it is cryptoanalytically unbreakable.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 04:11 pm
@Herald,
Your statements make no sense. They certainly don't represent the theory you are arguing against.

The math can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model_%28mathematical_formulation%29
You didn't address any of the equations or show how they are wrong. You simply declared they are wrong. I challenge you to show any of them as being wrong. But of course you won't because you don't even understand your own claims.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 08:32 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
   • What is the Standard Model ?
   • How do we test it ?
   • Why do we think its incomplete ?
   • What are the next steps ?
     There is however one more question that is not mentioned here - and it is the mission critical one: Why is the 'theory' of the Big Bang unbreakable?


It's not. All you need is evidence. Not stochastic word salads. Not stochastic imaginary "45% god/alien/ILFs-of-the-stochastic-gaps." Evidence. You quite obviously and stochastically don't understand either stochastics or the scientific process. I stochastically admit that you stochastically have a knack for stochastic pseudoscience, though. Stochastics.

FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 09:06 pm
0 Replies
 
 

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