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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:14 pm
Gullibility disguised as skepticism:

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2015/02/anti-science_skeptics_are_not_skeptics_they_are_incredibly_willing_to_believe_bs.html

Quote:
Anti-Science 'Skeptics' Are Not Skeptics. They Are Incredibly Willing to Believe BS.
Posted by Ross Pomeroy February 17, 2015


Being a "skeptic" is in. Doubtless, a great many "skeptics" of manmade climate change, vaccines, and 9/11 fancy themselves as brave, stalwart holdouts, standing tall against a tide of opposition, like Davy Crockett at the Battle of the Alamo.

But they aren't.

They are, however, incredibly willing to believe alternative, pie-in-the-sky explanations. Put it another way: They're not skeptical; they're extremely gullible.

Many climate skeptics contend that the massive scientific consensus on climate change is instead a conspiratorial hoax. Some vaccine refusers believe that health officials knowingly or unknowingly permit vaccine manufacturers to inoculate us with dangerous chemicals. 9/11 truthers argue that the attacks on the World Trade Center may have been orchestrated by our own government and covered up by the media. There is no convincing evidence to support any of these theories, but there is quite a lot that debunks them. In short, while these "skeptics" are incredulous to facts, they are incredibly credulous to fairy tales. This makes them some of the least skeptical people on Earth. Blinded by their ingrained, ideological worldviews, all they're doing is fooling themselves, and denying reality.

"They tell themselves that they’re the ones who see the lies, and the rest of us are sheep. But believing that everybody’s lying is just another kind of gullibility,” Slate's William Saletan eloquently stated.

For a great example of a "skeptic" who is blinded by his beliefs, look no further than comedian Bill Maher, who regularly (and rightly) lambasts Republicans for denying the overwhelming evidence on climate change, while at the same time ignoring even more overwhelming evidence on the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. Ideology, not evidence, governs his stances.

With the term "skeptic" being thrown around so haphazardly these days, it's worth mentioning what it really means to be a true skeptic. Few people know that better than the Fellows of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, an organization founded in part by Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov to promote "objective and impartial inquiry." In December, they announced their concern that "skeptic" was being confused with "denier," making it clear that the two terms are not the same:

Proper skepticism promotes scientific inquiry, critical investigation, and the use of reason in examining controversial and extraordinary claims. It is foundational to the scientific method. Denial, on the other hand, is the a priori rejection of ideas without objective consideration.

A true skeptic never dismisses an idea out of hand. A true skeptic is willing to be wrong, and recognizes an echelon of evidence that will change their mindset. And most importantly, a true skeptic doesn't only question the beliefs of others, he also questions his own. Because skepticism isn't just about doubting things you disagree with, it's about keeping yourself honest, open, thoughtful, and true.

If "skeptics" of climate change, GMOs, and vaccines, can embrace those standards, then they may call themselves true skeptics. If not, then they are simply anti-science deniers.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:15 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Quote:
Why is the 'theory' of the Big Bang unbreakable?
It's not.
     It is and even how, and your stochastic references are just another proof of that.
FBM wrote:
All you need is evidence.
     You don't have any evidence for most of the things you are claiming. Where is your evidence of:
     'All of a Sudden' and 'out of Nowhere'; 'out of Nothing', 'ten trillion trillion times greater that the T of the Sun' 'by Reason Unknown'; and also that the Big Bang 'theory' has ever had anything to do with the red shift (direct correlation between the 'expansion' of the Universe and everything else in the physical world); the CMB (how did you come to know that it is 'traces of the Big Bang', and not reflected and refracted light and other emissions - 13.8 By is a lot of time and a lot of energy may be dissipated throughout the Universe in that period); the chemical elements; the particles - where do you have any particles & chemical elements (or their preconditions & assumptions) in the Singularity?; Information for their structuring? and ability for their Creation out of whatsoever? - Why don't you show us that evidence of yours?
     If the math of the QMs is predicting the presence of some particles here and there it is not because of the 'explanations' of the Big Bang 'theory', it is not because its fables about itself and the world - it is rather 'in spite of'. Do you make any distinction between 'owing to' and 'in spite of' ... as a causality?
FBM wrote:
Not stochastic word salads.
     It doesn't matter what you may talk about applied math, but the math argument is a valid scientific argument. If you are curious to know five nines of your standard of living at present is applied math - even the prediction of the particles is applied math - it is not physics. It will become physics when and if you succeed to attach it to the fables of your favorite 'theory' ... by means of valid physical interpretations.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:43 pm
@Herald,
Laughing Another garbled stochastic word salad of unsupported stochastic claims. Show some stochastic evidence for your stochastic "personal stochastic 45% god/alien stochastic/ILF/Big Stochastic Bang-although-it-never-stochastically-happened/Stochastic Standard Model-although-it's-stochastically-wrong."

Here's your big chance, Herod. Your big chance to present some genuine evidence that disproves the Big Bang and the Standard Model and proves that your god/alien thing is real. What do you have for us? The Nobel Committee is waiting...

4:0
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:46 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/planck-composite-all-sky.jpg
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:46 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10924803_525631007588101_7721564566975561719_n.jpg
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:49 pm
@FBM,
Herald wrote:

... my personal are God or some meta-intelligence [Which? Those are different things, as evidenced by your choice of the disjunctive "or."] (string theory [String Theory is not a meta-intelligence being. It's a physical theory, 100% man-made] or s.th. ["s.th."? What? You don't even have a word for it? Then how can you give it the 45% possibility of being responsible for the universe if you can't even identify it? You've named four different CONTRADICTORY possiblilities that you're giving 45% faith to. And you think this **** is a "validly plausible" as the Standard Model? I'll say one thing, it's as "validly plausible" as the Scientology you seem to admire.]; 30% another ILF [Why "another ILF"? Why not the "meta-intelligence you included in the 45% part?], sending the designs on the Earth even through some form of teleportation or another form of encoded communication (it might have extinct already by the time the information has came here)[Cool story, bruh. Very L. Ron Hubbard-ish. Problem is...evidence. Got any?], and perhaps 25% of the Big Bang [Which you have repeatedly denied ever happened, and yet give 25% credit to? Puh-lease.] and the theory that we are made out of star dust (whatever this might mean)[It means the Standard Model, which you have also subsequently argued to be trash. Make up your mind. Does it share 25% credibility along with the Big Bang (which you also deny) or is it a profoundly flawed product of a scientific conspiracy?] and fused with the time by the Dark Energy and Dark Matter.[This just does not make any logical sense. What is "fused with 'the' time" and how did Dark Energy and Dark Matter do this? What are you even talking about? How can you give 25% to it/them, then deny that it/they ever happened?]
...


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10565239_608185829312451_1162164996702832020_n.jpg
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 12:38 am
@FBM,
More pseudoscientific quackery:

Herald wrote:

This is next fable for idiots - the modern medical science cannot fix elementary diseases like diabetes and multiple sclerosis, that have poisoned the lives of humans for ages, but will start producing 3-D human organs - collection series, limited edition, for science connoisseurs only. If is does not fix the metabolic causes for the failure of the organ in the first place - even it succeeds to print out 4D human organs - it doesn't matter - the new failure is inevitable.


This sort of committed (he should be) denialism is malignant. People who think like this are the ones who take their critically ill children to faith healers, crystal healers, alternative (to) medicine quacks, etc. This sort of thinking is at the forefront of the anti-vaxxer movement, climate change denialism, etc.

There is n0 dearth of reasons to resist pseudoscience and the denialist subculture.

0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 12:45 am
@FBM,
Look op Piaget!!!
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 12:49 am
FBM is really raping this thread with his stupid science comments!!!

This isn't a discussion anymore, mate! It is you trying to back up your religion of material scientism. and shouting it from some roofs! That is ok once in a while. I do that too, but you are doing it way too much!

Wake up, mate and smell the coffee!!!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 03:42 am
Things are looking pretty good for the Standard Model these days. For alien/god/ILF chimeras, not so much: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2014/11/lhcb-observes-two-new-baryon-particles

Quote:
LHCb observes two new baryon particles
Posted by Cian O'Luanaigh on 19 Nov 2014.

Today the collaboration for the LHCb experiment at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider announced the discovery of two new particles in the baryon family. The particles, known as the Xi_b'- and Xi_b*-, were predicted to exist by the quark model but had never been seen before. A related particle, the Xi_b*0, was found by the CMS experiment at CERN in 2012. The LHCb collaboration submitted a paper reporting the finding to Physical Review Letters.

Like the well-known protons that the LHC accelerates, the new particles are baryons made from three quarks bound together by the strong force. The types of quarks are different, though: the new X_ib particles both contain one beauty (b), one strange (s), and one down (d) quark. Thanks to the heavyweight b quarks, they are more than six times as massive as the proton. But the particles are more than just the sum of their parts: their mass also depends on how they are configured. Each of the quarks has an attribute called "spin". In the Xi_b'- state, the spins of the two lighter quarks point in the opposite direction to the b quark, whereas in the Xi_b*- state they are aligned.

“Nature was kind and gave us two particles for the price of one," said Matthew Charles of the CNRS's LPNHE laboratory at Paris VI University. "The Xi_b'- is very close in mass to the sum of its decay products: if it had been just a little lighter, we wouldn't have seen it at all using the decay signature that we were looking for.”

"This is a very exciting result. Thanks to LHCb's excellent hadron identification, which is unique among the LHC experiments, we were able to separate a very clean and strong signal from the background," said Steven Blusk from Syracuse University in New York. “It demonstrates once again the sensitivity and how precise the LHCb detector is.”

As well as the masses of these particles, the research team studied their relative production rates, their widths – a measure of how unstable they are – and other details of their decays. The results match up with predictions based on the theory of Quantum Chromodynamics (QCD).

QCD is part of the Standard Model of particle physics, the theory that describes the fundamental particles of matter, how they interact and the forces between them.
...
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 06:15 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Things are looking pretty good for the Standard Model these days.


Y A A AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA W N

This isn't funny annymore!

This guy clearly has no clue and is an ardent believer in the scientific mythology!


unbelievable to watch!!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 07:43 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
An intelligent designer wouldn't make the reproductive system so susceptible to disease.

This is not fault of the designer. It is a result of promiscuous intake of antibiotics and other 'medications' with delay intoxication and chaos causing effect ... and also as a result of the cleaner having stolen the detergent and washing the toilet with dirty water.


Holy jeebus butt-******* christ on a pogo stick. The same person who wrote that wrote this as his hypothesis of how the universe originated:

Quote:
and perhaps 25% of the Big Bang


Then denied over and over and over and over again that the Big Bang ever happened. Whooo.... http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/ewacky.gif
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 08:12 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Then denied over and over and over and over again that the Big Bang ever happened. Whooo..


Of course it never happened!!!!

WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT A BIG BANG HAPPENED???

parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 08:53 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Herald claimed there is a 25% chance of something happening that never happened. I guess your version of statistical probability is different from yours.

Speaking of which, you still have not disputed my stats about the likelihood of something happening. I guess you can't defend your position so you can only attack the position of others and then run and hide.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 12:48 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Laughing Another garbled stochastic word salad of unsupported stochastic claims.
     Why don't you tell us how you imagine the 'support' of the claims of a math model?
FBM wrote:
Show some stochastic evidence for your stochastic "personal stochastic 45% god/alien stochastic/ILF/Big Stochastic Bang-although-it-never-stochastically-happened/Stochastic Standard Model-although-it's-stochastically-wrong."
     I can show you evidence, but you will not be able to understand it for life - so what is the point?
FBM wrote:
Your big chance to present some genuine evidence that disproves the Big Bang and the Standard Model and proves that your god/alien thing is real.
     There is something wrong with you here. I am not disproving the 'Standard Model' (as you call it, but you are absolutely unable to formulate it) - I am verifying it. The world does not work the way you imagine it to have happening - a priori you roll up something on the finger and then you bring water of nine wells in order to prove it of disprove it. Things do not work that way. You are not at a position to suggestologise and manipulate the outcome - the outcome of the verification and validation test is what it comes. It doesn't matter what you want it to be ... and what 'you need'.
FBM wrote:
The Nobel Committee is waiting...
     If you are the Nobel Committee, I am Alfred Nobel himself.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 01:12 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
I guess your version of statistical probability is different
     What do you understand of probability ... by claiming that tossing a coin is a probability of two?! outcomes that are not equal ... for I am too stupid to know that.
     If you are curious to know tossing a coin is a probability of Three outcomes, and neither two of them are equal as probability distribution, for the coin is never perfect ... and can be used neither as an example, nor as a formal model for modeling the fake Big Bang 'theory'.
     Suppose we have the probability space Pr: tuple (Ω, X), where the Ω is the unique representation of the probabilities of the stochastic variable X, which for the case of tossing a coin has Three outcomes - {Head, Tails, & Edge}.
     So, we have Ω = {Heads,Tails,Edge}, and your claim was that the probability is not 50:50. Yes, it really is not 50:50 and if you measure it empirically (by making ten trillion trillions trials, for example) you may find out that Pr ({w1}, (X=Heads)) = 48%; Pr ({w2}, (X=Tails)) = 49%; and Pr ({w3}, (X=Edge)) = 3%; and it is for no wonder having in mind that the tossing of a coin is NOT a probability with Two outcomes, and is Never ideal, and it has Nothing to do with any Big Bang assumptions and inference on that by analogy.
     You are misinterpreting the math model ... to Infinity, by replacing it with something else ... by hoping that we are that stupid not to notice it ... which is the fatal system error of your assumptions.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 01:40 pm
@Herald,
Quote:
If you are curious to know tossing a coin is a probability of Three outcomes, and neither two of them are equal as probability distribution, for the coin is never perfect ... and can be used neither as an example, nor as a formal model for modeling the fake Big Bang 'theory'.

When did I ever claim that tossing a coin only had 2 possibilities and that they were equal? It seems you are adopting an argument I made several months ago and now claiming it as your own while pretending I took a different stance.

Quote:
So, we have Ω = {Heads,Tails,Edge}, and your claim was that the probability is not 50:50. Yes, it really is not 50:50 and if you measure it empirically (by making ten trillion trillions trials, for example) you may find out that Pr ({w1}, (X=Heads)) = 48%; Pr ({w2}, (X=Tails)) = 49%; and Pr ({w3}, (X=Edge)) = 3%;
Ludicrous assumptions on your part. The likelihood of a coin landing on its edge is nowhere near 3%. It would be much less than 1%. Heads/Tails is a function of which was up when the coin was tossed and is about 51/49.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/gamblers-take-note-the-odds-in-a-coin-flip-arent-quite-5050-145465423/?no-ist

But now, let's examine your statement of the Big Bang having a 25% chance of happening while at the same time arguing that the Big Bang could have never happened. When something could have never happened then its chance must be less than a coin landing on it's edge. In fact if it could never have happened then the chance of it having happened must equal zero and not 25%. I don't think I am the one with a problem with statistics.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 02:26 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

...
FBM wrote:
Your big chance to present some genuine evidence that disproves the Big Bang and the Standard Model and proves that your god/alien thing is real.
     There is something wrong with you here. I am not disproving the 'Standard Model' (as you call it, but you are absolutely unable to formulate it) - I am verifying it. ...


Well, let's see. The Standard Model says that there was a Big Bang, which you deny. The Standard Model includes the red shift of the stars and the cosmic background microwave radiation, both of which you deny. The Standard Model says the universe is expanding, which you deny. The Standard Model says that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, which you deny. The Standard Model does not include a "personal 45% god/alien/ILF-of-the-gaps" that somehow magically, telepathically sends instructions through time about anything, which you do believe in.

Maybe this is another dictionary problem? Let me help you:

Quote:
ver·i·fy
ˈverəˌfī/Submit
verb
make sure or demonstrate that (something) is true, accurate, or justified.
"his conclusions have been verified by later experiments"
synonyms: substantiate, confirm, prove, corroborate, back up, bear out, justify, support, uphold, attest to, testify to, validate, authenticate, endorse, certify
"the evidence verifies my claim"


4:0
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 10:31 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
RE: the 'score' 4:0
     1. The score after this comment here will become 4:12.
     2. In the capacity of presenting yourself as one of the-top-ten-greatest-scientists in math logic, physics & astrophysics ... & astrobiology (which is another theme), perhaps you should not use exactly the Merriam Webster's definitions in your super-scientific formal models. Any top scientist would make his own definitions, especially for the purpose - for he is one of the people writing the Merriam Webster's
     3. So and so you would hardly ever be able to make any appropriate definition - a not entirely bad idea is to use the 'ISO DIS 9000 2015 - Plain English Definitions', where Verification is defined as follows:
     Verification is a process. It uses objective evidence to confirm that specified requirements have been met. Whenever specified requirements have been met, a verified status is achieved. There are many ways to verify that requirements have been met. For example you could inspect something, you could do tests, you could carry out alternative calculations, or you could examine documents before you issue them.
FBM wrote:
Maybe this is another dictionary problem? Let me help you: ...
     You have been told non-seldom that the people making formal models do not use 1:1 definitions from the dictionaries. These definitions are too general, and too polysemantic to be used for math logic purposes.
     Your definitions should be ad hoc. In the case with the Big Bang 'theory', ad hoc means that you have:
     - a World - the Universe at present and right after the Big Bang
     - some formal model ... well, let's assume that it is
     - set of claims in connection with the formal model (for the Big Bang creating whatsoever and out of wherever).
     'Verification' here is to find some plausible physical interpretations of all of the random-texts, presented by the Big Bang 'theory' as truth of the last resort, to assign beliefs to them on the grounds of calculating/estimating empirically the probability to have really happened (and to have really been explained by the Big Bang 'theory') - in other words to upgrade the random-texts of the Big Bang 'theory' into physics of the real world ... or astrophysics, or cosmology, or whatever it might be there.
     From where automatically follows that the score becomes beyond any doubt 4:13
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 10:45 pm
@Herald,
Did you explain anything about how your "personal 45% god/alien/ILF-Big Bang (that somehow both did and didn't happen)-Standard Model (that is somehow both right and wrong) of-the-gaps" hypothesis accounts for a single observed phenomenon? Did you provide empirical verification, supporting evidence? Anything remotely similar? No? Then:

4:0
0 Replies
 
 

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