4
   

Who Gave Feminism A Bad Name?

 
 
medium-density
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 02:42 pm
@maxdancona,
If you didn't want to reply you shouldn't have replied.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:27 pm
Feminism is a commie plot to make women think they're "wasted" being a good wife and mother, and that they should "fulfil" themselves out in the world.
It's not rocket science-
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country"-Lenin
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 03:49 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm a million year old feminist. I started out, though, by throwing away Betty Friedan's book in exasperation, since, much as I wanted to do any work I was able to do via experience and education, I still thought I should obey the husband - and the big problem was then how to find a husband I might want to obey. That was probably in 1963 or 64. I got over that obey thing over the next year or two, but that was a big deal back then. Even a boyfriend (salutes Larry, a marine at that, math-music-philosophy guy) tried to tell me I was wrong. When I did marry more than a decade later, there was no obey in the vows and that was common by then.

I've never read the many fem rant books but I've read about them at some length and the rads didn't represent me or any of my women friends in the decades since. I have female friends of greatly varying ages. There is a fairly deep fem history with different generations with different takes and women disagreeing with each other within those generations, disagreeing on things even if they were all "feminist".

What you describe in the post I'm answering has nada to do with my opinions.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 04:07 pm
@medium-density,
The problem with much of the feminist movement is that it depends on a mythology that men and women are not equal... and the men (as a gender) have something wrong with them.

The anti-racism civil rights movement didn't need to claim that there was something inherently wrong with white people. They addressed the injustice without claiming that other races where inferior.

The gay rights movement was the same. There was no need to claim that straight people had something wrong with them that was the cause of the inequality they faced.

I am all for addressing inequality in society. But I don't think this requires accepting a mythology where one the inherent flaws of one group of people is responsible for injustice of another.

That is why I reject feminism.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 08:44 pm
@medium-density,
Quote:
Also you left out the parts where I talked about valuing fatherhood. Though, since you raised the objection, do you deny that fathers walk out on families in far greater numbers than do mothers?


I have been thinking about this. I do deny that fathers walk out on families in far greater numbers than do mothers.

There are plenty of women who have children and then decide that they don't want to be mothers. Since you made the unsubstantiated claim that fathers walk out "far greater numbers", it is your job to back that up with fact... but I would guess that the number of mothers who decide leave their children is equivalent to the number of fathers.

There are two differences between men and women in this regard, and both of them have more to do with our social/political system than any inherent difference between men and women.

1. Women have far more options. They can choose an abortion. They can put the baby up for adoption. There are even "baby safe zones", that a mother can leave a baby without question. Men don't have these options... if the mother chooses to have the baby, the men don't have any options.

2. Society gives much more support to mothers who are having difficulty with parenting.

I don't accept the idea that women are inherently better parents, or more committed to their children than men. The fact that you are making this dubious claim kind of proves my point.


0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 09:29 pm
@maxdancona,
Huh?

0 Replies
 
IanRust
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2014 10:01 pm
@medium-density,
society is not historically unequal... males do everything to provide for females. Males are disposable ... they're the ones putting their lives down. Throughout history this has been true. Women get a free ride based on their appearance often times. Then they have children and tend to them / socialize while men continue to work. I don't consider them oppressed by any means. Sure there are crimes, but no one really examines the crimes committed against men... men aren't busy complaining for more handouts, they know better than that.

A good example is with prostitutes and the sex industry. Women act like men have exploited them. In truth women are the ones creating all the pornography, all the exploitation. The one being exploited is the customer - the man. They're the ones denied of any real relationships while the woman is getting rich off enslaving not only him but generations of children ... these type of women are all masters of rationalizing how they've been exploited, though. Rather than take responsibility, women find ways they've been exploited.

Sure there are cases of exploitation but it is definitely not imbalanced for victimizing women. The case for men just hasnt been made the way women make it - because women are whiners.

: )
medium-density
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 01:19 am
@IanRust,
To summarise your views with the statement "Men are better than women" would not be simplifying what you say by very much.

I have no hesitation, no qualms, in describing you as a misogynist. As such, you have nothing of interest to contribute to this discussion.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 02:04 am
@medium-density,
Rejecting arguments solely on your distaste for the political positions of the speaker is a sure way to stay ignorant.
0 Replies
 
IanRust
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 10:22 am
@medium-density,
"Men are better than women" is a horrible reduction of my statements.

I find feminists often label men misogynists and then ignore them. But if misogyny was such a problem, you'd think there was this big culture of misogyny wrongfully persecuting women. I don't see it anywhere... where is it?
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 11:02 am
@IanRust,
You need to study some history. It is only in the last few tens of years that women have had it good. Before that a man could whatever he wanted to to his women with the churches and governments blessings. Hell they havent for the most part acquired full equality with men yet.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 11:03 am
@RABEL222,
History schmistory. Not that long ago there were women who owned male slaves.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 11:26 am
@maxdancona,
Through their husbands. Till just lately women couldent own anything without a man overseeing their actions.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 11:35 am
@RABEL222,
That isn't true at all.

George Washington wanted to free his slaves. His wife Martha prevented him from doing so. Martha Custis (formally Martha Washington) retained her slaves after her husbands death.


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 11:47 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That isn't true at all.

George Washington wanted to free his slaves. His wife Martha prevented him from doing so. Martha Custis (formally Martha Washington) retained her slaves after her husbands death.



that is impossible, we all know that men decided everything back then, women had no say.
IanRust
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 03:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
HAHAAA!....

Some slaves actually didn't want to be freed when slavery was abolished. I see nothing inherently wrong with slavery. If you mistreat the slaves, that's a problem. But we're all slaves to the society we've created. WHen I go to work I'm a slave to my boss. Not in name but the difference is negligible. As you climb the ladder you're even more obligated by responsibilities. There was abuse of slaves but alot of that has been sensationalized... you'd almost think every slave owner was beating the **** out of their slaves all day long. Many slaves were actually thankful they were brought to America as living conditions were worse in Africa.
0 Replies
 
IanRust
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 May, 2014 03:29 pm
@RABEL222,
Religion doesn't treat women unfairly, it treats them well. You say that women have been unfairly treated but you haven't named one specific instance of this happening. Don't give generalizations about religion and expect me to accept this as an argument. Give a specific instance of religious oppression.
0 Replies
 
medium-density
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 May, 2014 04:28 am
This discussion has exploded. Look at this mess.
IanRust
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 May, 2014 09:36 am
@medium-density,
You aren't obligated to participate.
0 Replies
 
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 May, 2016 07:51 am
@medium-density,
Men
 

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