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Your thoughts on John Kerry

 
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 12:45 pm
What are your thoughts about him? If your voting for him why are you doing so? Do you think you have all the facts?

I want to see where this thread goes and as points get made I will introject as a Vet on behalf of all the vets I have been speaking with lately.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 4,402 • Replies: 44
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 01:03 pm
Well, he married an heiress to the Heinz fortune--Heinz by the way outsources more than 60% of its payroll to countries outside the U.S.

He is a U.S. Senator.

He's proficient in acquiring real estate as testified by his many homes:


Fox Chapel, Pennsylvania (Assessed value: $3.7 million)


Ketchum, Idaho ski getaway/vacation home (Assessed value: $4.916 million)


Washington, D.C - Georgetown area (assessment: $4.7 million)


Nantucket, Massachusetts waterfront retreat on Brant Point (Assessed value: $9.18 million)


Boston, Massachusetts - Beacon Hill home (Assessed value: $6.9)


He sold an estate in Italy to activist actor George Clooney, just before announcing his running for president. I guess he thought it might not sit well with the common man. ($7.8 million)


Other foreign property ownership by John Kerry is unknown... because he denied repeated requests for this information.

He says he understands the problems of and the issues important to the common man.
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safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 01:10 pm
Let me add, He makes his "service" a standpoint of his campaigne, such service where he was awarded 3 purple hearts for self admitted "minor injury" he never spent any time in the hospital, he was awarded 4 medals in 2 months (I checked the issue dates) he got a silver star for finishing off a wounded NVA (his gunner was the hero not him and thats not what a silver star is awarded for, trust me I have 1)

He went AWOL from his duty to fly a war activist around the world while the rest of his unit faught the war, he helped sweep POW's and men MIA under the rug so to speak. He even threw "his" medals away at a anti war convension and now he wants to play war hero when it's obvious he didn't earn any of the medals he got.

sorry I'm going to stop now before I scare ppl with too many facts.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 03:52 pm
I don't know how sensible it is to refer to what Heinz does as "outsourcing"!
They make and sell food products.
Food requires fresh ingredients.
LOCAL.
Would you rather buy food made with fresh ingredients in India for consumption in the US,
or would you prefer if it were made here?
Common sense.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:01 pm
You're not scaring me yet, as I can't see any facts, just a lot of allegations.
Do you think John McCain is a traitor too? And how recent is that thinking?!
Foxfyre: "He says he understands the problems of and the issues important to the common man."
What, you don't think that's possible? Check out Kennedy's record; he's never been a "common man" yet he consistently works to pass legislation that benefits "the common man". Just because certain conservatives can't fathom caring about "the common man" when they have money doesn't mean all monied folks are as uncaring! It's time you all got used to that fact.
Not to mention, and I hate to burst your bubble, but Bush is rich too. A newspaper went and printed pictures and values of all the candidates homes, and Bush's ranch in Austin was only valued at $124,ooo, which is bullsh*t. He can't even tell the truth about that, probably to bilk the public out of property taxes!. Many people looking for a home in Austin could NEVER find one for that price, as a real estate agent wrote in and pointed out.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:05 pm
Consider the following:

The Real Benedict Arnolds
byy James K. Glassman
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2004

ARTICLES
Scripps Howard News Service
Publication Date: March 8, 2004

Sen. John Kerry is fond of calling CEOs who employ foreigners "Benedict Arnolds," after the despicable Revolutionary War turncoat.

But look at H.J. Heinz & Co., the family business of Kerry and his wife, Teresa. Of the 79 factories that the food-processor owns, 57 (a felicitous number!) are overseas. According to its website, Heinz is making ketchup, pizza crust, baby cereal and other edibles in such countries as Poland, Venezuela, Bostswana, China, Thailand and India.

Put hypocrisy aside. The traitors to American interests aren't CEOs seeking to boost profits that ultimately lead to more hiring at home. The real Benedict Arnolds are Kerry and his colleagues in Congress, like Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Jon Corzine (D-NJ), who understand enough economics to know that outsourcing is trade and that trade--as David Ricardo figured out 200 years ago and as Hillary's husband articulated in the 1990s--benefits both parties.

Imagine if U.S.computer companies were forced to make all their components at home. The cost of computers would be higher, so U.S. business could not enhance productivity, grow and hire workers. Plus, U.S.computer makers would be priced out of the market and forced to fire workers.

So far, legislation backed by Clinton, Corzine and the rest has been fairly benign. But they have fanned the flames of protectionist anger, and the fire is raging out of control. One result could be a reversal of the global movement toward open trade, which has been a boon to America.

This is a good time to remember the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Act, which touched off a tariff war that cut global trade by more than two-thirds in five years. Smoot-Hawley, in the view of many economists, intensified and prolonged--and perhaps even caused--the Great Depression.

The link for the rest of the article:
http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.20059,filter./news_detail.asp
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:07 pm
Suzy....I made no comments one way or the other in the list I posted. You drew the conclusions there. Not me Smile
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:12 pm
I'm simply making an observation!
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:24 pm
Just looked up the numbers. You're right that Bush is wealthy too with a net worth estimated between $8 million and $23 million. John F. Kerry's net worth is estimated between $199 million and $800 million making him the wealthiest U.S. senator.
Neither one has to worry where his next meal is coming from obviously.

It is true however that Bush's ranch home in Crawford TX (he doesn't have property in Austin to the best of my knowledge) is quite modest as presidential homes go.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:41 pm
He will have an even longer face when Bush hits with with the outsourcing in a debate.

A review--
But look at H.J. Heinz & Co., the family business of Kerry and his wife, Teresa. Of the 79 factories that the food-processor owns, 57 (a felicitous number!) are overseas. According to its website, Heinz is making ketchup, pizza crust, baby cereal and other edibles in such countries as Poland, Venezuela, Bostswana, China, Thailand and India.

It seems there is almost no rebuke he can level at Bush, without being equally, if not more, guilty.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:44 pm
safecracker wrote:
sorry I'm going to stop now before I scare ppl with too many facts.


That's hard to do when you are using "facts" that are not true.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 04:53 pm
sofia writes:
Quote:
It seems there is almost no rebuke he can level at Bush, without being equally, if not more, guilty.


Well not re outsourcing anyway. But in Kerry's defense I haven't heard him leveling that charge at Bush though he is guilty of joining in that chorus in the Senate.

There is stuff he can hit Bush with and Bush will not get unscathed through the debates if there are any. But on balance, I think the scales tilt in favor of Bush's policies/viewpoint vs Kerry's.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:01 pm
Foxfyre-- HI!

Kerry has droned on about Bush sending jobs overseas. He's made himself a huge target on this issue. An American politician, who chooses to send his many jobs overseas. He CANNOT make that argument without looking WORSE than Bush. (IMO)

Name an issue, if you like (other than personal military service), and let's see if Kerry won't get slimed from the brush he's painting Bush with... Even the military service is being challenged (but not by me.)
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:04 pm
Yeah, Kerry's military service is off limits for me too. (Though his testimony before Congress re that service is not off limits.) He did serve.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:05 pm
Foxfyre,

I understand your partisan bias, but not everything you read on the Internet that supports your point of view is true.

Check out these links from Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/homes.asp

You should note that calling the Heinz the family business of "Kerry and his wife" is ridiculous by any stretch.

You should also note that John Kerry doesn't own "many homes" (not that it matters). This is from the Snopes link above...

Quote:

The aggregate value of these five homes is roughly $29 million, but the claim that John Kerry "owns" all of these properties is problematic. John and Teresa Kerry signed a prenuptial agreement and have kept their premarital assets separate. The Boston townhouse (which John Kerry mortgaged in 2003 to finance his presidential bid) is the only one of these homes that they own as a couple; the other four belonged to Teresa before her 1995 marriage to John Kerry, and some of them are even still listed under the name of her late husband.


BTW. I am really looking forward to the debates [heh heh heh].
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:06 pm
On the bright side for the Bush camp...

They are building schools in Iraq.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:11 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
On the bright side for the Bush camp...

They are building schools in Iraq.


The more educated people are ANYWHERE the worse it is for bush.

My thoughts on Kerry? He's not bush. Simplistic perhaps but all that matters.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:19 pm
Seems like nearly every single one of the "facts" posted to this thread are demonstratably false. <shrugs>

I've still not debunked a few that I'd noticed, but you guys get the idea. When you try to "scare" people off with "facts" make sure you are not just repeating falsehoods.
0 Replies
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 05:30 pm
Amen, Bi-Polar.

There may be a few thorny issues with Kerry, but the charges being raised by the Bush campaign are facile and designed to play to the fears and prejudices of the voters who are already in the Republican fold.

I don't think they've scored many points with the independents so far, and they sure aren't scaring the Democratic faithful.

Kerry can win, but I'm not betting the mortgage payment that he will. Unfortunately, image may matter more than issues. As usual.
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safecracker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2004 06:03 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Seems like nearly every single one of the "facts" posted to this thread are demonstratably false. <shrugs>

I've still not debunked a few that I'd noticed, but you guys get the idea. When you try to "scare" people off with "facts" make sure you are not just repeating falsehoods.


Well let me see here, you have said it is not true but provided nothing to show me such.

Quote:
February 28, 1969:
When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he hot dogged his craft beaching it in the center of the enemy position. To his surprise, an enemy soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled.

The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher.

Kerry was given a Silver Star for his actions.


1st of all this is not grounds for a silver star.

Quote:
For distinguished gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States or while serving with friendly forces against an opposing enemy force.

The Silver Star is the third highest military award designated soley for heroism in combat. Established in 1918 as the Citation Star, in 1932 it was redesignated as a medal with a retroactive provision that allowed servicemen as far back as the Spanish-American War (1898) to receive it for gallant actions.

The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction.


Now how did John Kerry get a silver star for shooting an NVA in the back and his crew get none?


Quote:
John Kerry: The Chameleon Senator
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
October-December 1996 Issue


Despite the prayers and wishful thinking of POW/MIA families and Vietnam veteran activists, Sen. John Forbes Kerry, the "chameleon" senator from Massachusetts, was re-elected to the Senate in the 1996 election. Apparently Kerry's well publicized history as a longtime radical supporter of the Vietnamese communists and a recent flap about whether or not he is guilty of a war crime meant very little to the voters in Massachusetts.

Sen. Kerry, the "noble statesman" and "highly decorated Vietnam vet" of today, is a far cry from Kerry, the radical, hippie-like leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in the early 1970s. After Kerry, as a Navy Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam, was awarded the Silver Star, he used a loop hole in Navy regulations to leave Vietnam (and his crew) before completing his tour of duty.
After returning home, Kerry quit the Navy early and changed the color of his politics to become a leader of VVAW. Kerry wasted no time organizing opposition in the United States against the efforts of his former buddies still ducking communist bullets back in Vietnam.

Kerry gained national attention in April 1971, when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, then chaired by Sen. J. William Fulbright (D-AR), who led opposition in the Congress against U.S. participation in the war. During the course of his testimony, Kerry stated that the United States had a definite obligation to make extensive economic reparations to the people of Vietnam.

Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.

One of the provisions stated: "The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal [from Vietnam], they will enter discussion to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam." In other words, Kerry and his VVAW advocated the communist line to withdraw all U.S. troops from Vietnam first and then negotiate with Hanoi over the release of prisoners. Had the nine points of the "People's Peace Treaty" favored by Kerry been accepted by American negotiators, the United States would have totally lost all leverage to get the communists to release any POWs captured during the war years.

Kerry was fundamental in organizing antiwar activists to demonstrate in Washington, including the splattering of red paint, representing blood, on the Capitol steps. Several hundred of Kerry's VVAW demonstrators and supporters were allowed by Fulbright to jam into a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in 1972 and to chant "Right on, brother!" as Sen. George McGovern (D-SD), then the only declared Democratic presidential candidate, accused U.S. troops of committing barbarisms in Vietnam.

Kerry became even more of a press celebrity during a highly publicized "anti-war" protest when he threw medals the press reported were his over a barricade and onto the steps of the Capitol. Kerry never mentioned that the medals he so gloriously tossed were not his own. The 1988 issue of Current Biography Yearbook explained: " . . . the ones he had discarded were not his own but had belonged to another veteran who asked him to make the gesture for him. When a 'Washington Post' reporter asked Kerry about the incident, he said: 'They're my medals. I'll do what I want with them. And there shouldn't be any expectations about them.'" Kerry's medals have reappeared, today hanging in his Senate office, now that it is "politically correct" for a U.S. Senator to be portrayed as a Vietnam War hero. Alas, so much for integrity.

Recently, Kerry became extremely defensive when David Warsh, an economics columnist for The Boston Globe, questioned the circumstances for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. Kerry, who was in a close re-election battle with Gov. William F. Weld, a Republican, quickly gathered his former crew from his Swift boat days to rebuff the "assault on his integrity."

According to the official citation accompanying the Silver Star for Kerry's actions on the waters of the Mekong Delta on February 28, 1969: "Kerry's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry ordered his units to charge the enemy positions. . . Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." In an article printed in the October 21st and 28th 1996 edition of The New Yorker, Kerry was asked about the man he had killed.

"It was either going to be him or it was going to be us. It was that simple. I don't know why it wasn't us--I mean, to this day. He had a rocket pointed right at our boat. He stood up out of the hole, and none of us saw him until he was standing in front of us, aiming a rocket right at us, and, for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger--he turned and ran. He was shocked to see our boat right in front of him. If he'd pulled the trigger, we'd all be dead . . . I just won't talk about all of it. I don't and I can't. The things that probably really turn me I've never told anybody. Nobody would understand," Kerry said. In the column, Warsh quoted the Swift boat's former gunner, Tom Belodeau, as saying the Viet Cong soldier who Kerry chased "behind a hootch" and "finished off" actually had already been wounded by the gunner.

Warsh wrote that such a "coup de grace" would have been considered a war crime. Belodeau stood beside Kerry and said he'd been misquoted. He conceded that he had fired at and wounded the Viet Cong, but denied Kerry had simply executed the wounded Viet Cong. Dan Carr, a former Marine from Massachusetts, who served 14 months as a rifleman sloshing around in the humid jungles of I Corps, South Vietnam, questioned whether or not Kerry deserved a Silver Star for chasing and killing a lone, wounded, retreating Viet Cong. "Kerry is certainly showing some sensitivity there. Most people I knew in Vietnam were just trying to pull their time there and get the hell out. There were some, though, who actually used Vietnam to get their tickets punched. You know, to build their resumes for future endeavors," Carr said.

In 1991, the United States Senate created the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs to examine the possibility that U.S. POW/MIAs might still be held by the Vietnamese. As chairman of the Select Committee, Kerry proved himself to be a masterful chameleon portraying to the public at large what appeared to be an unbiased approach to resolving the POW/MIA issue. But, in reality, no one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry. (Remember the middle name "Forbes").

In fact, his first act as chairman was to travel to Southeast Asia, where during a stopover in Bangkok, Thailand, he lectured the U.S. Chamber of Commerce there on the importance of lifting the trade embargo and normalizing relations with Vietnam. During the entire life of the Senate Select Committee, Kerry never missed a chance to propaganderize and distort the facts in favor of Hanoi.

Sydney H. Schanberg, associate editor and columnist for New York Newsday and Pulitzer Prize winning journalist veteran of the Indochina War whose book, The Death and Life of Dith Pran, became the subject of the Academy Award-winning film The Killing Fields, chronicled some of Kerry's more blatant pro-Hanoi biases in several of his columns.

In a Nov. 21, 1993 column, Schanberg wrote, "Highly credible information has been surfacing in recent days which indicates that the headlines you have been reading about a 'breakthrough' in Hanoi's cooperation on the POW/MIA issue are part of a carefully scripted performance. The apparent purpose is to move toward normalization of relations with Hanoi.

"Sen. John F. Kerry, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, is one of the key figures pushing for normalization. Kerry is currently on a visit to Vietnam where he has been doing two things: (1) praising the Vietnamese effusively for granting access to their war archives and (2) telling the press that there's no believable evidence to back up the stories of live POWs still being held. "Ironically, that very kind of live-POW evidence has been brought to Kerry's own committee on a regular basis over the past year, and he has repeatedly sought to impeach its value. Moreover, Kerry and his allies on the committee - such as Sens. John McCain, Nancy Kassebaum and Tom Daschle - have worked to block much of this evidence from being made public."

In December of 1992, not long after Kerry was quoted in the world press stating "President Bush should reward Vietnam within a month for its increased cooperation in accounting for American MIAs," Vietnam announced it had granted Colliers International, based in Boston, Massachusetts, a contract worth billions designating Colliers International as the exclusive real estate agent representing Vietnam.

That deal alone put Colliers in a position to make tens of millions of dollars on the rush to upgrade Vietnam's ports, railroads, highways, government buildings, etc. C. Stewart Forbes, Chief Executive Officer of Colliers International, is Kerry's cousin. Kerry was portrayed in The New Yorker as a proud Vietnam veteran and "war hero" who, as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, dared to take on and defeat the "mendacious POW lobby."

In its 1993 final report, the Select Committee determined that live U.S. prisoners of war were left behind in the hands of the Vietnamese after the end of the war. The committee also claimed it found no "compelling" evidence proving the POWs remain alive today. Kerry's committee stopped there without answering three of the most profound questions of the entire Senate POW/MIA investigation: What happened to those U.S. prisoners of war who the Select Committee said were alive and in the hands of the Vietnamese but not released at the end of the war? If they are dead, where are their remains? Who is responsible for their deaths?

No doubt most of the Establishment press will continue to obscure from the public and themselves the raw truth about Kerry, the communist Vietnamese and the POW/MIA issue because it is politically convenient. There is also no doubt the POW/MIA families and Vietnam veteran activists know the truth and recognize Kerry for what he truly is--a traitor, hypocrite, liar and chameleon.


medal of honor, designed to signify a veteran.. or DEAD soldier... who received a WOUND during combat. It was not meant to be awarded to someone who got a scratch... a cut... or a "boo boo".

Are you going to suggest that Kerry deserves his THREE purple hearts??? When there are vets today in WHEEL CHAIRS who only got ONE purple heart?

1 Silver Star
1 Bronze Star
3 Purple Hearts

In 4 months time..... YET... walked away unscathed, with all his apendages.... and ran for congress less than a YEAR after leaving his "crew"... his MEN... behind?

Three purple hearts? And NO hospital time????

Quote:
Kerry commanded his first swift boat, No. 44, from December 1968 through January 1969. He received no medals while serving on this craft.


Kerry was in vietnam for 4 months... and the first two months, he got NO MEDALS. SO, HE RECEIVED 5 MEDALS.... FIVE MEDALS... IN TWO MONTHS????

3 PURPLE HEARTS IN TWO MONTHS???? THATS 1 PURPLE HEART EVERY 2.5 WEEKS.



Quote:
During the Civil War, more than 2,000 men (and one woman) were awarded Medals of Honor... some under dubious circumstances. Politics, fraud, and the dignity of the award led to a review of all 2,625 Medals of Honor awarded to members of the U.S. Army prior to 1917 by a review board of five retired generals. When the review board finished, 910 Medals of Honor were revoked as not having been properly awarded.

More importantly, the review board led to the creation of a PYRAMID OF HONOR...a hierarchy of military awards with the Medal of Honor at the peak...


I must give credit to my friend browningbda for alot of this info, so ya there it is black and white the man should be on trial for war crimes right now and it is a discrace to all the vets out their that actually earnd their salad bar for him to claim such.
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