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UK on Syria: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

 
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 06:35 am
@spendius,
I said the story was beautiful, and in many respects it is, which is why people don't tend to bother themselves with the truth.

It's like finding out at the end of Snow White she turfs the dwarfs out of the mine and keeps all the diamonds.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 06:48 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
It's like finding out at the end of Snow White she turfs the dwarfs out of the mine and keeps all the diamonds.


Isn't that perfectly natural? I can't imagine an evolutionist thinking otherwise.

How do you relate that metaphor to the situation being discussed?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 07:26 am
@spendius,
The dream has turned to a nightmare, the oppressed have become the oppressor. That's the message I was hoping to encapsulate in said metaphor.

Does it pass muster?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 07:31 am
@izzythepush,
Which party is Snow White and which the dwarfs and what do diamonds represent?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 07:35 am
@spendius,
Snow White is the Jews, the dwarfs the proletariat, who find that despite having a ruler who is no stranger to hardship, they still have all their resources taken away.

Obviously it's not strict, but it gives a sense of the happy ever after message being pissed on by realpolitik and greed.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 07:46 am
@izzythepush,
I think it is actually more sinister than that. It's about Snow White becoming like Goebbels.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 08:38 am
@Olivier5,
They are masters of propaganda.
0 Replies
 
0bserver
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 02:47 pm
@izzythepush,
1. I don't think the Palestinian rockets are the only reason for conflict, but it is one of the serious reasons. I do realize that there is occupation and it has to stop. I told you several times before - just pay attention. Unlike you, I am capable of looking at both sides.
2. "bad apple as opposed to the general trend." - For the sake of reason, buy a ticket and visit Israel - talk to people instead of blowing up the bubble of hatred in your head. But on the other hand, I'm sure even there you will only talk to the side you want to hear. I personally know many people from both sides.
3. I never lied about anything. You are now lying by saying that. The British did send Jewish ships back to Europe where those people died in German extermination camps. I call this "sending to the Nazis". You want to be a lawyer about this - I couldn't care less. I do know the difference between the EU and the UK - I never claimed there wasn't. By saying I am confusing between them - you are lying too. I still think the fact that Ashton is British affects the EU now very much.
4. You did lie many times saying that Israel has a race based legal system. This is an intentional propaganda lie. And many other occasions where you lied about less serious things.
5. I have no illusions about both Israel and Palestinians. Both are guilty of different things. "witnessed the brutality of the occupation" - I witnessed that too. Has he witnessed pieces of human flesh spread on asphalt from kids blown on a bus by Palestinian terrorists? I have.

In no way am I choosing one narrative over the other. I am getting tired of repeating this: stop blaming one side, start seeing something positive in both sides (anything!) - if you want to resolve the conflict. But now I realize that you don't want to resolve it. For you it would be basically like cancelling a soccer game - no more fun of fighting.



0bserver
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 02:48 pm
@izzythepush,
After the dwarfs kept stabbing her in her sleep
0 Replies
 
0bserver
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 03:07 pm
@izzythepush,
"proletariat".. Do us a favor don't bring Marx into this. "proletariat".. ha
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 03:55 pm
@0bserver,
Quote:
The Prime Minister's office is reportedly spending around £540,000 recruiting more than 500 students to respond to social media posts calling for boycotts and sanctions against the country, the Jerusalem Post says. Those with foreign language skills who receive these "scholarships" would not identify themselves as being in the pay of the government. Instead, Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper says, the plan is to make the programme appear to be based on the activity of politically-neutral students, with the Prime Minister's Office also hoping to recruit from pro-Israel student groups from around the world.

Israel certainly won't be the first country to pay internet users to defend its interests online. China' so-called 50 Cent Party comprises people who are paid by the Beijing government to help sway public opinion by posting pro-China messages on internet forums. They're named after the sum they're reportedly paid: 50 cents per post, the equivalent of 5p.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896

I can see that the rabid outpourings of Oralboy aren't going to win much support, but your 'I'm really a neutral, I can see both sides' schtick isn't fooling anybody.
0bserver
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 04:33 pm
@izzythepush,
Yes. You got me. I am being paid by the Mossad. Hilarious
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 04:45 pm
@0bserver,
It's funny how you're so pro a weapons strike on Syria, which is not in line with most of your countrymen.

Lunatics like Oralboy and Gungasnake aside, most of the pro strike opinion has been more measured. They're hopeful that it could do some good rather than being convinced it's the right thing to do.

Not you though, you're really banging the drum for it. And I mean really banging the drum.
0bserver
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 04:51 pm
@izzythepush,
Canada has lots of different opinions as you may know. I am not pro strike on Syria as such. I am not even against Assad more than I am against other fractions fighting there.

I would like to see Assads airports hit, the rocket launchers, and the chemical weapon factories - that's it. If they want to keep fighting militants against militants - that's not our business. If they want to start a genocide - it is.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 05:06 pm
@0bserver,
Russia says it's inconceivable that Assad would use chemical weapons now he's actually winning. Iran says it has proof Assad didn't fire. Surely all evidence should be looked at, not just American evidence.

At the end of the day a weapon strike would not shorten the war or make life any better for the ordinary Syrians which is why I oppose it.
0bserver
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 05:35 pm
@izzythepush,
On this matter I don't trust the Russians, the Israelis and the Iranians - all have conflicts of interest. Obama is not interested in acting, and even he admits it was Assad who did it. Obama has no conflict of interest here - so I prefer his opinion on this matter. Not because he's a nicer guy than Putin - he just has less interest in this.
0 Replies
 
0bserver
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 09:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Do you at least trust these people ?

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/syrien-bnd-faengt-beleg-fuer-giftgaseinsatz-durch-assad-regime-ab-a-919965.html

Google translation:

" BND captures evidence of use of poison gas by Assad regime.

The German intelligence is certain that the Assad regime is responsible for the poison gas attack in Syria. Even though there is no definitive proof, but many clues. A wiretapped telephone call from the BND could be decisive. "
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2013 11:46 pm
@0bserver,
0bserver wrote:

Do you at least trust these people ?
They don't belong to those whom I "trust". But I really never had any doubts that Assad's regime uses/used chemical weapons. As are/were his opponents.
0bserver
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 12:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I am not ruling out his opponents using chemical weapons. I just don't know what delivery systems they could use. Do you have any assumptions?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 12:23 am
@0bserver,
When you look at the huge amount of chemical weapons in Syria which is unknown where it could be now - yes, I have some guesses.
 

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